ABS poll

[GTO1]

Yes to ABS.

[Mystic_Cobra]

No ABS. Driving on square tires is a learned skill

 

And one that will have me building a bigger motor, putting on Hoosiers and running with the Vettes and others in Super Touring and say good bye to AI.

 

I just find it amuzing how you guys want to get rid of something that is currently allowed in he rules because someone "could" be cheating if they have an S197 or SN99 car and there are less than 10 in the entire US running those cars.

 

By that same reasoning, I guess we should disallow computer controlled engines entirely because someone could be running a flip chip and should all run carb'd motors with spec ignition boxes and set timing.....oh my the sky is falling.

 

If you guys want a rules set that tight, go run spec miata....they also don't run ABS!

 

EXACTLY. If someone really wants to cheat, there are easier, cheaper, more productive ways of doing it.

[Jim P.]

I vote YES for ABS - (and I don't have ABS!)

 

AI has always been the Leader in accommodating cars and aftermarket vendors to enhance the cars, why not allow extreme ABS solutions if someone wants to go to all that trouble? It's just like Aero or any other "perceived" advantage - it's all in what the driver feels works for him/her - no one could accuse Robin of an Aero advantage with that S197 brick he has!

 

Jim Pantas

WildHorsesRacing.com

[King Matt]

But the current rule doesn't allow that, hence those of us in the "all or nothing" camp.

[Jim P.]

But the current rule doesn't allow that, hence those of us in the "all or nothing" camp.

Put me down for an ALL+Aftermarket vote then

 

Jim Pantas

WildHorsesRacing.com

[swhiteh3]

There is a class that would be very good for "All + Aftermarket" approach to ABS. It's called AIX.

[D Algozine]

There is a class that would be very good for "All + Aftermarket" approach to ABS. It's called AIX.

 

 

Can I get an, "Amen"?

 

In my opinion, most of the items that lead to heated discussion belong in AIX. And no, I'm not advocating a stock class or another CMC. There's a reason why there are 3 classes for ponies cars.

Look, we can give our opinions and not threaten to leave the series

[robbodleimages]

This is 2008. ABS has been around for a while now. My race had it new in 1995 and it was a race car in 1995. The ABS is the street ABS from 1995.

 

Why now?

[D Algozine]

This is 2008. ABS has been around for a while now. My race had it new in 1995 and it was a race car in 1995. The ABS is the street ABS from 1995.

 

Why now?

 

Per the existing rules, and I'm paraphasing, a stock ABS is legal. It has come to light that there is no way to check if a system is stock. Ford builds modified for racing ABS in the Challenge cars, and I'm sure there are ohtes, and aparently the stock unit can be re-programed. So, if it can't be checked or verified to be stock then it presents a problem. Plus, there has always been a group that feels ABS doesn't belong in AI.

 

And, yes anyone running a fuel injection system can cheat pretty easy, and I personally know of at least one EFI car that had a switch for a seperate tune. I'm not sure how that gets policed either, but thats another issue.

 

Also, don't be surprised that rules change, because everthing changes. The rules have to evolve. No one wants to see radical changes, but there is always going to be adjustments.

[ST#97]

There is a class that would be very good for "All + Aftermarket" approach to ABS. It's called AIX.

 

 

Can I get an, "Amen"?

 

In my opinion, most of the items that lead to heated discussion belong in AIX. And no, I'm not advocating a stock class or another CMC. There's a reason why there are 3 classes for ponies cars.

Look, we can give our opinions and not threaten to leave the series

 

There are actually 4 classes....don't forget the cmc/2 debacle. If AI is supposed to be the "middle road" solution to the 3 classes and CMC has no ABS, AIX could have whatever you want to afford including traction control, launch control and Electronic Stability control (rules change 20l0 suggestion), then it would make sense that stock ABS in AI would be fine.

 

Seriously though, show me the documentation that a "reflashed" OEM system of any kind is PROVEN to be X% better and I might start thinking of sealed OEM systems....but if you really want to hold to letter of the rule that the OEM system must remain AS DELIVERED from the factory, then it would have to remain mounted as it was from the FACTORY too... Wow, that seems to kill some innovation in building race cars doesn't it?

 

I am for allowing ANY ABS system being allowed stock or modified. I will stick with my street car and still run top 5.

[firehawkclone]

How many guys saying "No ABS" have ABS currently and want to remove it?

 

I do!

[firehawkclone]

[quote name="D Algozine

Ford builds modified for racing ABS in the Challenge cars' date=' and I'm sure there are ohtes, and aparently the stock unit can be re-programed. [uote]

 

This is my main concern! If we open up ABS, than once again the mustang is givin another advantage! Nobody does GM's!

 

But I guess I could track down the engineer's that built my ABS 15yrs ago than somehow convince them to redo mine

[pbr96]

[quote name="D Algozine

Ford builds modified for racing ABS in the Challenge cars' date=' and I'm sure there are ohtes, and aparently the stock unit can be re-programed. [uote]

 

This is my main concern! If we open up ABS, than once again the mustang is givin another advantage! Nobody does GM's!

 

But I guess I could track down the engineer's that built my ABS 15yrs ago than somehow convince them to redo mine

 

So put the Ford unit in the GM, it's not much different than putting a GM motor in a Ford. What is good for one should be good for the other. In fact, hit this website http://chicane23.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" ; and look up "Tech Articles" on doing a retrofit.

 

I'm for ABS even though it's not in any of the my cars. It has both advantages and disadvantages so run what you have. One event or track conditions it might be better, another it may not. You could say the same for sticker tires compared to a set with 10 heat cylces, or gear ratios and clutches, torque vs horsepower. They all have advantages somehwere and it all seems to balance out.

 

This is racing, it's never fair! Someone will always have a bigger budget, more time, newer parts, bigger trailer or is a better driver so he must be cheating, whatever. The rule package in place is decent, it does allow you to be creative and if someone wants to cheat the rules and spend a forture, you can't stop them and no set of rules ever will. The tougher and tighter you make them, the more costly and creative people and teams get. That's just the facts.

[firehawkclone]

So put the Ford unit in the GM, it's not much different than putting a GM motor in a Ford. What is good for one should be good for the other. In fact, hit this website http://chicane23.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" ; and look up "Tech Articles" on doing a retrofit.

 

 

This is racing, it's never fair! Someone will always have a bigger budget, more time, newer parts, bigger trailer or is a better driver so he must be cheating, whatever. The rule package in place is decent, it does allow you to be creative and if someone wants to cheat the rules and spend a forture, you can't stop them and no set of rules ever will. The tougher and tighter you make them, the more costly and creative people and teams get. That's just the facts.

 

Saying the classic" cubic dollars always wins" and i should just accept it, doesn't change the facts of a "race unit " or tuneable ABS that nobody can test!

 

Theres an idea, I can write my protest's now for the first event for all cars with ABS

 

And it is a decent rules package.... for a mustang! I did start writing all the rules made just for mustangs! But this is easier http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/2009/American_Iron_Rules.pdf

[ST#97]

Saying the classic" cubic dollars always wins" and i should just accept it, doesn't change the facts of a "race unit " or tuneable ABS that nobody can test!

 

Theres an idea, I can write my protest's now for the first event for all cars with ABS

 

And it is a decent rules package.... for a mustang! I did start writing all the rules made just for mustangs! But this is easier http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/2009/American_Iron_Rules.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

I am saying this both in FUN and all seriousness, but you F-body guys need to trim the mullets and open your eyes. After seeing Tommy's effort at nationals this year, I can seriously tell you that I am considering a 4th gen LS1 car. Seriously! We mustink drivers have to change ALL of our parts over to copy a camaro and you guys still say you are at a disadvantage because nobody makes any parts for your cars.....they don't have to! It's not like it's hard to make bushings and you guys have cheaper shock solutions than we do. What's all the complaining about? I would put $500 on the table that if Mr. Scranton from Colorado let me drive his car at Nationals in 2009, I would put it on the podium if not on the top. From what I saw, it was a VERY sweet car and with some sorting and seat time, he will be VERY fast. If he could build that car, so can you guys.

 

 

As for the protests, fill them out or have the balls to say who you think is cheating...otherwise, keep it to yourself and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

[King Matt]

Dave Shotz finished 5th in a CMC-2 car with the restrictor plate pulled, so I really think it's time for the GM people to quit whinging.

[firehawkclone]

Saying the classic" cubic dollars always wins" and i should just accept it, doesn't change the facts of a "race unit " or tuneable ABS that nobody can test!

 

Theres an idea, I can write my protest's now for the first event for all cars with ABS

 

And it is a decent rules package.... for a mustang! I did start writing all the rules made just for mustangs! But this is easier http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/2009/American_Iron_Rules.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

I am saying this both in FUN and all seriousness, but you F-body guys need to trim the mullets and open your eyes. After seeing Tommy's effort at nationals this year, I can seriously tell you that I am considering a 4th gen LS1 car. Seriously! We mustink drivers have to change ALL of our parts over to copy a camaro and you guys still say you are at a disadvantage because nobody makes any parts for your cars.....they don't have to! It's not like it's hard to make bushings and you guys have cheaper shock solutions than we do. What's all the complaining about? I would put $500 on the table that if Mr. Scranton from Colorado let me drive his car at Nationals in 2009, I would put it on the podium if not on the top. From what I saw, it was a VERY sweet car and with some sorting and seat time, he will be VERY fast. If he could build that car, so can you guys.

 

 

As for the protests, fill them out or have the balls to say who you think is cheating...otherwise, keep it to yourself and don't ruin it for the rest of us.

 

Reason for edit: No need to respond to this!

 

You put your vote in, so stop crying! Besides the protest thing was a joke

Edited December 3, 2008 by Guest

[firehawkclone]

Dave Shotz finished 5th in a CMC-2 car with the restrictor plate pulled, so I really think it's time for the GM people to quit whinging.

 

Dave is a freak of a driver, and knows Mid-Ohio really well being a top runner in T2 for many years. And with no ABS to.

 

This was a simple poll, all the whining is from the ford camp