cosm3os Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Now that we have a National Director, can we get a ruling on whether the Grand Am scrubs can be considered DOTs, rather than slicks? Everywhere I've lurked, it seems everyone agrees that their grip is equivalent to the R6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 How many competitors are running these, want to run these? What do the local competitors and Regional Director think? Are they cheaper than the R6? What is the advantage - why are you seeking an exception? I'm leery of setting a precedence of creating special allowances - the slippery slope is that we may get a variety of requests for special consideration for a variety of different tires, complicating the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1025134 I understand your concerns. At $240 a set, I could do a lot more events! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) How many competitors are running these, want to run these? What do the local competitors and Regional Director think? Are they cheaper than the R6? What is the advantage - why are you seeking an exception? I'm leery of setting a precedence of creating special allowances - the slippery slope is that we may get a variety of requests for special consideration for a variety of different tires, complicating the rules. Ian, We've discussed this before. Grand-am Hoosiers are not DOT approved tires. They have a compound similar to to the R6, but have extra layers of tread to last as an enduro tire. I understand that there are Grand-am scrubs available for a cheap price, but there are also take off slicks available for cheap prices. If the slicks are not set-up correctly they can be slower than DOT R's, so should we give them an exemption too? I understand guys wanting to run less expensive tires, but I think we should stick with the rules that have worked so well to date. We have on ratio for DOT and one for Non DOT. My .02 cents -Scott B. Edited November 9, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 I figured it was a pretty good price break. The thread you linked to did mention that they were a bit stickier than the R6 (at least in that poster's opinion). Regardless if there are actual performance benefits, if there is a perceived performance gain, that can be detrimental to the spirit of competition. To extend the life of your regular competition tires you could run these in warm up sessions, then switch to your competitions for sessions that could count for track records (not sure what your wheel situation is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 That's a great idea! Now we know why you got the job. Can we consider that a ruling that settles the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 In my personal opinion, they are non-DOT tires, and should fall under that category. If you want to run them, just adjust your weight as necessary to stay in your same class (if that's what you want). Making an exception just opens a whole can of worms, and takes away from the simplicity of rules that is GTS. If you run them in warm-up, fine, as timing isn't official, and it's a good time to try out different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Can we consider that a ruling that settles the issue? We'll count it as the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Simard Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 If the slicks are not set-up correctly they can be slower than DOT R's, so should we give them an exemption too? I understand guys wanting to run less expensive tires, but I think we should stick with the rules that have worked so well to date. We have on ratio for DOT and one for Non DOT. My .02 cents -Scott B. I know this very well. I use takeoff cup slicks and it takes me from fitting nicely into 3 to being at the bad end of 4. Maybe I'm clueless about 'setting them up correctly' but have never found a used slick to be as much better than a used Hoosier DOT as the points penalty implies. I'm NOT pushing for a change but why the big points hit from a DOT to a slick? It's similar in TT, was this decided years ago when tires were different? Does everyone still think there's that much difference between an R6 and a slick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 ...Does everyone still think there's that much difference between an R6 and a slick? It depends on the slick, as there are a lot of different compounds out there. A slick with the right compound for the car and track combination will be much faster than an R6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 If the slicks are not set-up correctly they can be slower than DOT R's, so should we give them an exemption too? I understand guys wanting to run less expensive tires, but I think we should stick with the rules that have worked so well to date. We have on ratio for DOT and one for Non DOT. My .02 cents -Scott B. I know this very well. I use takeoff cup slicks and it takes me from fitting nicely into 3 to being at the bad end of 4. Maybe I'm clueless about 'setting them up correctly' but have never found a used slick to be as much better than a used Hoosier DOT as the points penalty implies. I'm NOT pushing for a change but why the big points hit from a DOT to a slick? It's similar in TT, was this decided years ago when tires were different? Does everyone still think there's that much difference between an R6 and a slick? There is a big difference between the R6 and a Slick. If you have a new set of Hoosier R6's and a new set of Hoosier R100's(slick) or Pirelli's or other true slicks there is a big advantage to the slicks. The ratio difference is to try and equal the class with guys that run either tire. The higher the class the less of a weight penalty. Slicks have in general always been better than the best DOT R compound. You have to write the rule to cover all aspects, as there will be racers with new tires every weekend ! -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 What is to prevent you fro buying new Koni tires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 What is to prevent you from buying new Koni tires? I'm pretty sure Hoosier only sells new tires to Koni Challenge teams. The reason most guys run them is because scuffs can be bought pretty cheap from Koni teams, not because they have better performance than R6's. It basically a budget thing. -Scott B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 For what it's worth, PT/TT considers the GA "slicks" to be the same as R6s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Yah, but that's by defualt--R6's are already in the highest class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG1901 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Once again, this is a simple rule. DOT vs slicks. None of us are tire experts. If it says "DOT" on the sidewall it's DOT. If it doesn't, it's not. Let's not turn this SIMPLE series into a bunch of nit-picky rules that make it easier to cheat. What we have works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmills416 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I agree, Slicks are Slicks and DOT's are DOT's. It doesn't matter if there are scrubs or not the rule should stay the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I agree, Slicks are Slicks and DOT's are DOT's. It doesn't matter if there are scrubs or not the rule should stay the same. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 I started this thread: I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Just to be clear, it was decided that we will not append the rules to allow for the Grand-Am scrubs to use the DOT classification ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Just ordered a proper set of R6's from phil's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Just ordered a proper set of R6's from phil's! You should have waited for the new compounds that will come out in spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Now don't start that. I'm already scared that I'm diving in in the middle of the current economic situation. They were cheap scrubs so I thought it would be a good opportunity to try em out (my first set). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSCoupe Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Now don't start that. I'm already scared that I'm diving in in the middle of the current economic situation. They were cheap scrubs so I thought it would be a good opportunity to try em out (my first set). They're like crack; the first is always free/cheap, but then you're hooked, and start paying full price for the good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Right, and the little hit isn't enough. You need bigger (read: fatter) hits each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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