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Proposed Rule Change - Dyno Certification Frequency


ianacole

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Proposed rule/change: Change the requirement for annual dyno sheets to a different frequency, or allow Region to define frequency/need requirement

Background: Do drivers who haven't made any changes in the off-season really need to recertify?

Status: Open for debate

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Maybe it's cause I'm new here, but I've never understood the requirement of a cert every year. If I turn in a dyno (whether it be this year's or last year's) and I get a protest, stick it on a dyno and whatever happens, happens.

 

I don't see why there is a need for any frequency.

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I don't think the annual dyno requirement is overly burdensome, but would agree this could be done less frequently if that's the consensus. I do think a dyno cert. should be done at least every other year. This change would increase the importance of making sure trackside dynos are performed consistently within the regions......trust but veryify!

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Coming from a racers point of view, I like knowing that the primary classification method is being monitored - this helps avoid any perception of unfair advantage. As tire and other contingencies grow I see competitiveness for these dollars growing, and a perception of an unfair advantage can instill resentment and unhappiness. There has been the talk of allowing Regional Directors to enforce the requirement as they deem necessary, but this can create an issue when a racer travels out of home region to a race where the requirements are more stringent. I am totally in favor of the Regional Directors working with their local competitors to have an established practice, so long as it's communicated that in any dispute, the letter of the rule will be applied (whatever we work that out to be here), and when traveling to another region the competitor is must assume the host region follows the strict interpretation of the rule and they must be prepared to provide evidence of compliance (per the other rule change under discussion). However, in some cases, it may be easier to enforce the defined rules from day one rather than allow the compliance to evolve to avoid the "yah, but it was okay last year" scenario.

 

Regardless of the decision at the local level, I do think that it needs to be established that anyone attending Nationals must have a dyno plot and certification form dated in the calendar year. If this is different than the Regional requirement, we should append the rule to make sure it's clear that Nationals attendance has a different expectation.

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Whether you changed anything or not, you could have a variance of 5-10rwhp from one week to another. I think a bigger rule proposal would be to change the 4rwhp allowance to a percentage.

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Whether you changed anything or not, you could have a variance of 5-10rwhp from one week to another. I think a bigger rule proposal would be to change the 4rwhp allowance to a percentage.

 

I'll open up another rule discussion on this suggestion.

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I like the idea of every other year, unless going to nationals, as I need an AWD dyno, and they're kind of few and far between (at least Dynojet ones), are usually booked pretty far ahead, and cost more than a 2WD.

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I think every other year is fine if you are not running in podium positions. This is particularly true of a car like Mark's which, I presume, cannot be dynoed at the track. I think there should be a higher expectation of checking imposed on the drivers who are most able to compete for the win. If you're cheating and still running at the back, well, shame on you.

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Whether you do it annually, or biannually or whatever, the only way to verify is to stick it on the trackside dyno. I can give you a dyno done on Jan 1, 2009 and run all 2009 and 2010. If in 2011, I get protested, it gets verified. If it doesn't match my last cert (2009) then I get DQ'd.

 

That being said, I don't see a problem for requiring one within the calendar year for Nats. I don't see why you need one within a month of Nats. Cars can be modified in 30 days.

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I guess I'm one of the racers that thinks we should start each season with a new dyno sheet. A lot of things happen in the off season that can effect power/weight ratio. Not all regions have dyno's at the track, so it's possible that someone could run a whole season and technically be out of class. With the contingencys that are available to the front finishing cars per class, I think it's importatnt to do the best we can to make sure we are compliant.

 

I also believe that when the dyno is available at the track that select front running cars in each class should be dyno'd at least once during the weekend. We're pretty much a self policed series and I don't know of any dyno protests in the 4 years I've been running NASA GTS.

 

 

-Scott B.

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A lot of things happen in the off season that can effect power/weight ratio.

 

Like what? If my car sits in the garage all winter with a cover over it, I'm pretty sure the hp and the wt will be the same as it was at the end of the last season. If I fool with it over the winter, I better get it recertified or risk a DQ.

 

Again, I haven't run with you guys so maybe I'm naive, but I've been protested and have seen the protest system work. Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to load my car onto a trailer every spring and take it to a dyno and spend $100 just to confirm it's exactly the same as it was the year before.

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A lot of things happen in the off season that can effect power/weight ratio.

 

Like what? If my car sits in the garage all winter with a cover over it, I'm pretty sure the hp and the wt will be the same as it was at the end of the last season. If I fool with it over the winter, I better get it recertified or risk a DQ.

 

Again, I haven't run with you guys so maybe I'm naive, but I've been protested and have seen the protest system work. Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to load my car onto a trailer every spring and take it to a dyno and spend $100 just to confirm it's exactly the same as it was the year before.

 

 

Upgrades come to mind. When you run in a power/weight ratio series then it's just part of the cost of racing to get your car dyno'd each year. Protests are not common in GTS and the rules have been written to discourage such. I know you've talked about running in GTS-2. I'd suggest protesting those pesky P cars in GTS-2 when they pull away.....

 

-Scott B.

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You better believe every P car and E30 M3 will be protested before they get off the trailer!

 

I guess I'm assuming that if someone makes a change that would result in a significant increase in power, the rest of us would know it (either by peeking under the hood or watching a car walk away from you that didn't before). If that person is too dumb or too dishonest to get recertified, then he gets DQ'd.

 

Here's a question: What if I get protested and dyno more than the grace (whatever we eventually decide it will be), but I drive over to the scales and weigh in at a number that, even with the higher dyno I'm still legal. I would think no DQ--a legal car is a legal car (that's how we did it in TT). How do you guys handle it?

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You better believe every P car and E30 M3 will be protested before they get off the trailer!

 

I guess I'm assuming that if someone makes a change that would result in a significant increase in power, the rest of us would know it (either by peeking under the hood or watching a car walk away from you that didn't before). If that person is too dumb or too dishonest to get recertified, then he gets DQ'd.

 

Here's a question: What if I get protested and dyno more than the grace (whatever we eventually decide it will be), but I drive over to the scales and weigh in at a number that, even with the higher dyno I'm still legal. I would think no DQ--a legal car is a legal car (that's how we did it in TT). How do you guys handle it?

 

We go straight to scales first when coming off the track. You must meet your minimum weight. Then to the dyno if picked for compliance check. Then yes if your weight is high enough for your HP. then your fine. Then your dyno pull becomes your new official Hp/Trq. numbers.

 

Looking under someones hood doesn't usually show much. And just because someone is pulling you where they didn't before may have nothing to do with Hp. It could be things like, tires, suspension mods, diff, better set-up etc......

 

-Scott B.

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A lot of this stuff works really well as is. I would be carefull about changing something that really does work. I have seem very few people dq'ed as a result of how this all works together. I also have seem very few people pull away from me down the straight unless they get a better run out of the last corner!!! I am a pretty frugal guy but you really can't find $100 with a flashlite, magnafying glass and both hands in the racing budget!!!!!!!

 

 

Mike

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I guess I have no problem dynoing podium finishers, but what if I am lucky enough to be one of them? I doubt there will be an AWD dyno at any regional events. Just rely on my certification sheet, unless I'm protested? That's how it was written in the "old" rules.

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I guess I have no problem dynoing podium finishers, but what if I am lucky enough to be one of them? I doubt there will be an AWD dyno at any regional events. Just rely on my certification sheet, unless I'm protested? That's how it was written in the "old" rules.

 

 

We all know about the AWD thing. That really doesn't effect many cars at least in our region, so your an exception to the rule. Probably should leave the AWD rule as it's currently written. If somebody protests you, we'll all team up and beat them silly, plus we'll get T&S to change their finishing position. I hear you have connections......

 

-Scott B.

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A lot of this stuff works really well as is. I would be carefull about changing something that really does work. I have seem very few people dq'ed as a result of how this all works together. I also have seem very few people pull away from me down the straight unless they get a better run out of the last corner!!! I am a pretty frugal guy but you really can't find $100 with a flashlite, magnafying glass and both hands in the racing budget!!!!!!!

 

 

Mike

I agree with Mike on this. In the grand scheme of things, $100 is nothing. And, if your first race weekend is at a track where there is a dyno (Mid-Ohio, for instance), you don't even have to make a special trip to get it done.

 

For all the reasons outlined above, this has been working fine. Let's not mess with it.

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After listening to the discussion, I also think we should leave both the annual frequency in place and the 4HP variance rule. Let's not try to fix something that's not broken here.

 

Brad

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After listening to the discussion, I also think we should leave both the annual frequency in place and the 4HP variance rule. Let's not try to fix something that's not broken here.

 

Brad

 

+1

I agree with Brad.

 

 

-Scott B.

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After listening to the discussion, I also think we should leave both the annual frequency in place and the 4HP variance rule. Let's not try to fix something that's not broken here.

 

Brad

 

+1

I agree with Brad.

 

 

-Scott B.

 

I agree too. I really don't see any need for changes to something that's been working well.

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Well, this has been a fantastic conversation! It seems that we've come pretty close to full circle and the prevailing sentiment is to not alter the rules around dyno frequency and allowance. I will keep this conversation open awhile longer to assure everyone has an opportunity to voice their opinion.

 

Thanks everyone!!

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After listening to the discussion, I also think we should leave both the annual frequency in place and the 4HP variance rule. Let's not try to fix something that's not broken here.

 

Brad

 

+1

I agree with Brad.

 

 

-Scott B.

 

I agree too. I really don't see any need for changes to something that's been working well.

 

 

That would be my vote as well....

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