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Is GTS a Power to Weight or HP to Weight Series?

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dillehayd
Won't argue about the selfish...what I am asking for is a level playing field. You have a JP car...would you want to run for points against an IP car of the same level of prep? That is the basis for my request... And by the way, my car was optimized for GTS1 before the rule change moving me to GTS2 (It just happened that way when I built the ITA car). Chuck

 

That's a really poor comparison, Chuck. Your argument here is that the NASA rules aren't close enough to the SCCA rules in the specific instance of your car and that is somehow unfair? Really. Is it OK for me to go to BMWCCA and complain that my GTS3 328is isn't competitive in DM? Should BMWCCA rewrite their ruleset because I chose to build a really underpowered DM car? Bueller? Bueller?

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ELEPHANT1
Having been through the ITR/JP/GTS2 decision making process last year....I came to one conclusion. If you don't build a car to a specific class and a specific series, you will have to make compromises to all the classes you want to run in.

 

I could have gone ITR...then put cams in to be competitive in JP....but, then I can't run ITR....but, wait....I'm overweight for GTS2...so, I lighten the car. Wait! Now I'm DM! There is no "one car fits all" mold.

 

For me it was a decision based on:

 

1. What organization runs at tracks close to me?

2. What organization has the most competition in my class?

3. What organization(s) do I like to run with?

 

So....I'm now building my car more towards one class for a specific organization....NASA GTS2. And, yes, I'll be way out classed for DM with the CCA. But, that is the choice "I" am making.

 

Damon in STL

 

Well if we run DM together we can race for 2nd to last. ; )

 

Cheers.

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Damon in STL

 

Well if we run DM together we can race for 2nd to last. ; )

 

Cheers.

 

LOL...we should start lobbying the CCA for a "DM Lite" class!

 

Damon in STL

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B.Watts
Just wait until someone decides to build a car for GTS then none of us will be competitive.

 

Exactly...I think I've tried to make this point earlier in the thread, but it doesn't seem to matter. An IT car isn't even close to the max prep allowed in GTS no matter what your power/weight ratio is. Chuck, you're comparing your car to what is currently running in GTS, not to what the rules allow to run in GTS. The power/weight problem is the least of your worries against a car built without all of the restrictions you must build your car to for IT.

 

By your same argument, if you run your ITA car in a weak SCCA region where no one has any well built ITA cars and you dominate, the rules should be changed to make the other cars more competitive with your well built ITA car. It's not the fault of the rules that you've choosen to race a car that isn't maximized for the GTS ruleset.

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cwbaader

Byron, as I said earlier, before the rule change my car was optimized for GTS1. And yes, I have not gone to larger brakes which I can do, so, as you pointed out, my car is not 100% optimized for GTS. Anyway, how many winning SCCA cars do you see at a NASA event? IT level prep generally does well but the hp/torque still disadvantages some cars. Chuck

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rabbit_diesel

At least two problems exist with the GTS rules as currently published. These should be fixed for the 2010 rules.

 

1) The formula as written does not match the preceding words. To wit:

"If maximum wheel torque (WTQ) is greater than maximum wheel horsepower (WHP), the ratio shall be car weight with driver divided by the average of WHP and WTQ (WEIGHT/WHP+WTQ*.5)." If anyone doubts this, then show the quote to several mathematicians and see what they tell you.

 

2) The meaning of "maximum wheel torque (WTQ)" should be well defined. The most obvious meaning is 'maximum torque AT the wheel' --- but the usage of the term implies that the writer had a different idea in mind.

 

Will

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cwbaader

Come first of September, I will request a rules change to delete that whole paragraph. Using torque twice to classify cars is not only redundant, but also counter productive since it misclassified cars. Chuck

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rabbit_diesel

Good. That would be the best fix for that paragraph.

 

Was there a previous version of the GTS Rules that did not have the 'horsepower and torque averaging' rule?

 

Will

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911.racer

That is interesting.

 

How much more torque than Hp do the E30's typically have. Also, what is the normal redline for the cars.

 

If what we are really after is equality, then we should stop looking at the max number and start looking at the area under the curve. Area under the curve (be it Hp or Tq, it does not matter) would tell you the actual power potential of the motor. Just showing the peak number tells you nothing more than what the car can do at one point across the Hp/Tq curve (unless you have tuned your car to have a flat curve like one might to win this series).

 

Again, I agree with what was said earlier. The rules are the rules. Prepare your car to take advantage of them. If you have prepared your car to the max in another series, then there is no good reason to think that you would be at the max in this series. Change your car, not the rules.

 

I believe that the original author of these rules was an E30 driver.

 

Thanks

 

Ed

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kbrew8991

there's a big difference between the 325e (like Chuck's) and the 325i

 

(back to fly on the wall status for me)

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cwbaader

325e=140hp, 180tq, redline at 54-5600 but motor is fairly dead at 5k. Sometimes change is good, right oh vaulted green one? Chuck

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Damon in STL

I could only wish to have that kind of torque.....sigh.

 

Damon in STL

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