B.Watts Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 If the top GTS3 guys put the same effort/budget into building a Porsche, they would still be running at the front. GTS3 isn't even close to being "developed" either since the winning BMW's are pretty much crossover cars from a strict Prepared ruleset in BMW CCA. None of the GTS classes are even close to being fully developed. The sky is the limit in an open rule set. You could easily build a $400-500K GTS2 car if you wanted...buy a 997 RSR or a new BMW ALMS M3, detune the motor, add a little weight, throw on some $40K Ohlins, spend some time in the wind tunnel building underbody aero, chop the roof, etc, etc, etc... All within the "rules". Brand new, never run, 997 RSR ready to be detuned down to GTS3 or GTS2 power/weight ratios: RSR on Ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Racing Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 That RSR gives me a chubby... It looks like the most fun you can have with your clothes on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 ...and only $325,000! Lets see, if I can convince my family to live in the motorhome and sell my house... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwhite Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Brand new, never run, 997 RSR ready to be detuned down to GTS3 or GTS2 power/weight ratios: RSR on Ebay hot...but it doesn't have abs so how could it possibly win a race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Goldfarb Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Lets keep it simple. That is the beauty of the GTS series. Where do you draw the line. Its all be said before, but my 2 cents worth of input is no performance penalties. I do several SCCA regional races each year and just trying to figure out class is a real problem. Take a 93 325is BMW running in ITS and remove the restrictor plate, add a front splitter, real wing and M3 cam and do you have a SPO or P2 car. No one can give a definitive answer. As a regional director I don't need the headache of added restrictive rules. my vote is NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
116svvh Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 What is this ABS thing you speak of? Traction control? Even F1 did away with that junk. Ed, real men don't need that stuff. On a more serious note though, why would we be penalizing all wheel drive cars under the rules currently if there were no competitive advantages for traction control. I see it as an inconsistency in the rules quite frankly. As far as ABS, I dunno. ABS is kinda like having training wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Watts Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I do several SCCA regional races each year and just trying to figure out class is a real problem. Take a 93 325is BMW running in ITS and remove the restrictor plate, add a front splitter, real wing and M3 cam and do you have a SPO or P2 car. No one can give a definitive answer. As a regional director I don't need the headache of added restrictive rules. Agreed that the simplicity of GTS is what makes it work right now for those that enjoy running it. SCCA doesn't operate under the idea of bring us your car, tell us your mods, and we'll find a class for you to race in. With SCCA, as with professional forms of racing, you read the rules, choose a car that fits into the class you want to run and build that car to a specific set of rules. I, for one, prefer a stricter style ruleset because it allows for closer, more competitive racing and more "creative engineering" to find the last bit of time within a very confined set of options...that said, I'll race most anywhere I can. GTS, on the other hand, operates under the assumption that you've built a car without any real thought towards a ruleset and want a place to run it, using power/weight as a means of placing sorta similar potential cars into the same class. It has led to some competitive racing right now while many of the winning cars are developed cars crossing over from other series, but the sky is the limit on what can be done in GTS as compared to the series where these cars are crossing over from. A car with fully developed tunnel/diffuser setup, active suspension, dual A-arms at all 4 corners, carbon fiber brakes, etc, etc would be perfectly legal to race against a cross-over SCCA IT or BMW CCA Prepared BMW in GTS2. If the class continues to grow, and the contingencies continue to be offered, racers will begin building cars specifically to the GTS "ruleset" and I suspect this forum will be full of people wondering where "the GTS we used to know" went. With such a wide open ruleset, the ability to buy seconds on the track is wide open. Those with bigger budgets will always spend them, but there's more time to buy in an open rule set than in a strict ruleset...IMO, GTS may end up the victim of it's own success in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Watts Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 As far as ABS, I dunno. ABS is kinda like having training wheels. I wouldn't go that far...if the budget allowed, I'd love a programmable motorsport ABS system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 GTS may end up the victim of it's own success in the future. Something that's certainly possible. I've often wondered what's going to happen if GTS does get really big. Some real money will start showing up. I guess we'll deal with that when it comes, but as with any semi-unlimited class, your wallets the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FandangoDrew Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 My vote is NO. My car has traction control but I never use it because it over heats the brakes and I an considerably faster without it, that being said, I do not think it could be removed without a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad max Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Since many want to penalize other drivers for what they do not have, and make this more of a spec series, my two cents is to to penalize for wings and ground effects. I do not have them so no one else should either Just kidding, but where will this end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstreit911 Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Good point Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streak Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Veteran of 4 whole races here so clearly I know everything Maybe there could be a vintage class for each normal GTS Class. As an example my car has no aids at all and a lousy driver so I could qualify for GTS2V in my 86 911 It keeps it simple by using an exact model year for pre and post traction aids while maintaining the power to weight rules. No penalties, no weight, no arguing degrees of better or worse. 1989 and older 911's would be GTS2V while 1990-1992 911 (964) would be GTS2. Clear and simple. The starting model year for every car could be easy to pin down. The only downside to creating a class within a class would be the volume of participants. I have only done one weekend with Nasa so far so I am no judge of typical entrants. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew968 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 GTS works because it is simple and it easy to understand and the racing is very close among equally skilled drivers. It seems to me as soon as someone with a lot of money to spend on racing gets pretty good off they go Grandam. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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