Helmet from Santa.

[lee33lyn]

I was hoping to get a helmet from Santa since I don't think my 1990 Bell Mag3 helmet will work. Does the liner have to be flame retard? I am starting HPDE in 2009 and hopefully TTs soon after.

thanks Leebo

[kbrew8991]

Snell "M" works for everything up to and including TT, but its typically not much more for Snell "SA" that works for everything

[dbright007]

Snell "M" works for everything up to and including TT, but its typically not much more for Snell "SA" that works for everything

 

Snell M rated is no longer good in the SE per what we have been told. You could try to sneak it thru, but only KBrew would probably get away with it.

 

Try for Snell SA 2005 rated for your Santa gift.

[nasaregistrar]

make sure you try a bunch on so you know the exact size for each model that fits you.

[kbrew8991]

Snell "M" works for everything up to and including TT, but its typically not much more for Snell "SA" that works for everything

 

Snell M rated is no longer good in the SE per what we have been told. You could try to sneak it thru, but only KBrew would probably get away with it.

 

Try for Snell SA 2005 rated for your Santa gift.

 

WHAT? that is pretty retarded... when did that change?? Like you really need the fire resistant liner when you're wearing jeans & a cotton shirt

[jason]

A lot of people will tell you otherwise, but I highly recommend a full face helmet. I've been hit in the face twice with rubber flying in the window.

[TurboShortBus]

Please do a SEARCH on this topic. I posted the following back in August:

 

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The NASA CCR, 2008.13 edition, chapter 11.0 HPDE Technical Requirements, section 11.3 Required Safety Equipment - Driver, states:

 

"1. Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1990 (SA1990; M1990) or newer (or equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles."

 

The last I saw, NASA-FL requires M1995 or SA1995 as a minimum, so the individual regions may or may not be stricter than the CCR. But really, an M1990 helmet is 18 years old! It really should be thrown out by now.

 

BTW, I'm just an assistant tech inspector at the track events; I'm not any type of NASA official or anything like that. I'm just helping to answer some questions here, but ultimately, NASA and/or NASA-FL will have the final word.

 

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Mark

[TurboShortBus]

I also posted this in October:

 

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M/SA1995 helmets typically become flowerpots in 2010 (see note below about the CCR, since this may not necessarily be the case).

 

M/SA2000 helmets typically will do the same in 2015, so you'll get about 6 years out of one if you buy it now.

 

M/SA2005 helmets should be good until 2020.

 

I have found that my Bell helmets start falling apart (lining, trim padding, etc.) and smell like crap in 5 years or less, so I replace them. If that's the case with many people, then there's not much of a point in buying a helmet with a huge lifespan (date-wise) if you can save a few bucks on a closeout M/SA2000 helmet if you're only going to buy another one before it expires.

 

But, I agree...buy SA2xxx only, "just in case" you run with a group that requires them. Interestingly enough, the current NASA CCR allows M/SA1990 helmets (CCR 2008.13 edition, section 11.3, pages 42-43).

 

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Mark

[TurboShortBus]

WHAT? that is pretty retarded... when did that change?? Like you really need the fire resistant liner when you're wearing jeans & a cotton shirt

I agree with you about the liner, but SA helmets are more suited for roll bar impacts, whereas M helmets are not tested that way.

 

Mark

[TurboShortBus]

And this from June:

 

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Don't forget that, with an open face helmet, in a fairly serious incident you could wind up with your arms flailing around a bit, and you could conceivably punch yourself right in the mouth. I remember that David Green lost a tooth in a NASCAR wreck at Bristol (or maybe Martinsville?) about 10+ years ago. I seriously doubt that his mouth was able to reach the steering wheel, so the only other thing I could figure was a self-inflicted fist shot.

 

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Mark

[lee33lyn]

SA 20++ closed face helmet! Got it! Anybody know of any online site to purchace one?

[kbrew8991]

Discovery Parts - NASA-SE sponsor btw - is having a sale very soon I think, check the thread in the Southeast section about it

 

Apex Performance, one of their competitors, has also provided me with good service in the past so it might be a good comparison to look at at least

[lee33lyn]

thanks!

[dbright007]

Snell "M" works for everything up to and including TT, but its typically not much more for Snell "SA" that works for everything

 

Snell M rated is no longer good in the SE per what we have been told. You could try to sneak it thru, but only KBrew would probably get away with it.

 

Try for Snell SA 2005 rated for your Santa gift.

 

WHAT? that is pretty retarded... when did that change?? Like you really need the fire resistant liner when you're wearing jeans & a cotton shirt

 

Kbrew - You know the guys I paddock with well. SE drivers and instructors who drive Rx8's. Last couple of events in 07 the guys in M helmets were told to get rid of em for 08.

Tech changed immensely for 08. They put a Nasa sticker on my helmet at the first event that shows it passes.

All you have to do to tech for DE is show the sticker and your brake lights. Thats it. Takes 5 seconds.

 

They watch real close on grid and track for anything wrong with the car, but tech is now your own responsibility.

[kbrew8991]

I did the first two events this year with you guys - but there would have to be a change in event insurance and/or the CCRs to mandate an upgrade from Ms to SAs for HPDE. I've heard of neither...

[Ev]

Here is my take on helmets.

SA vs M for hpde. Do SA helmets offer more protection? Doubt it (other than the protection offered by the fireproof liner). SA helmets have to pass one additional test, the roll bar impact test. I have yet to see a manufacturer say what besides the line is different other than the passing of the additional test. Is the material construction beyond the liner different, doubt it. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. Until I see a manufacturers statement to the contrary, I will continue to doubt it.

 

Does a more expensive helmet offer more protection? Yes and no. As far as the "Am I more likely to survive an impact to the head with a $1000 helmet vs. a $200 helmet?", I doubt it. What the more expensive helmets do typically offer is lighter weight. A lighter helmet means less force on your neck during an impact. This may just be worth the extra cost, but you must decide that on your own.

 

This is just the way I justified my helmet purchase, I am no expert nor am I connected with the helmet industry. I would rather get a $200 helmet and use the rest of the thousand dollars on a head/neck restraint (hans, R3 rage etc) and have protection for my noggin and heck, than get the $1000 helmet and no H&N restraint.

[TurboShortBus]

This is just the way I justified my helmet purchase, I am no expert nor am I connected with the helmet industry. I would rather get a $200 helmet and use the rest of the thousand dollars on a head/neck restraint (hans, R3 rage etc) and have protection for my noggin and heck, than get the $1000 helmet and no H&N restraint.

 

I agree, although this won't really apply to people using stock 3-point seat belts.

 

Mark ($400 helmet)

[Ev]

This is just the way I justified my helmet purchase, I am no expert nor am I connected with the helmet industry. I would rather get a $200 helmet and use the rest of the thousand dollars on a head/neck restraint (hans, R3 rage etc) and have protection for my noggin and heck, than get the $1000 helmet and no H&N restraint.

 

I agree, although this won't really apply to people using stock 3-point seat belts.

 

Mark ($400 helmet)

It could apply. The R3 Rage is effective in cars with 3 point belts

[TurboShortBus]

It could apply. The R3 Rage is effective in cars with 3 point belts

Gotcha. I briefly looked them up before I replied, but I couldn't tell if that model required a shoulder harness or not. I have more time to surf the net when I'm not at work...

 

Mark

[DarkSideDE]

Many sellers have their tales of what is what with helmets.

 

One put it very simply:

Key differences between SA and M Rated Helmets (from Snell website):

SA standard requires flammability test while the M standard does not.

SA standard has rollbar impact test while M standard does not.

SA standard allows narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA helmets aren't street legal

 

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My favorite explanation is from a CDI I know - an M helmet in an accident goes bump, bump, bump, crack; while an SA helmet goes bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, etc.

 

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Meanwhile, according to the manufacturers of helmets they are good for 10 years. Then they give an extra 10 month extenstion. So the SA95s were good until Oct. 2006.

 

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And yes, in the Southeast - if you plan to be with other clubs that use the track - you cannot go wrong with an SA2000 or SA2005 helmet. (And you really don't want to keep them around long - ooooyyyyyeeeee, yucky - smell that old stale hair smell...gross) where, some clubs will not let you on the track if you bring an M helmet to the party...

 

Oh, and I love the line about it becoming a flowerpot - I didn't know what to do with the spares! Thank you.

[TurboShortBus]

Meanwhile, according to the manufacturers of helmets they are good for 10 years. Then they give an extra 10 month extenstion. So the SA95s were good until Oct. 2006.

NASA-FL currently allows M/SA95 helmets, while the NASA CCR (2008.13 edition) still allows M/SA90 helmets. The rule of thumb I have always seen is the current version (in this case, M/SA2005) plus the previous versions (M/SA2000 and M/SA95, in this case). NHRA works the same way for sportsman-level racing. Basically, this allows you to get up to 15 years out of a helmet; however, if you use it frequently, it will smell like the north end of a southbound mule in a hurry.

 

With that being said, note that Snell recommends that you replace your helmet every FIVE years. That gets expensive. Snell mostly cites general wear and tear on the inside as the main reason for frequent replacement, although they also mention degradation from solvents, etc. I guess you really should replace your helmet often if you're cleaning it with spray cans of ether, but if you take care of it, don't drop or abuse it, don't get in a crash with it, and keep it in a padded bag, then the only thing you're up against is internal sweat funk, so the helmet should be structurally fine for the full ~15 years.

 

Mark

[ExRacer]

Wow all good and interesting comments. Here's mine. I have a very lightly used pristine M2000 helmet that I let my HPDE friends use and I look to see if they are sweaty and tell them if they drop it or bang it they bought it. It is in extremely good condition. I wouldn't personally use it in my caged racecar. Even under HPDE sessions.

 

I have raced with a Si>>>>N SA2000 for the last 5 years. It has a fair share of little black marks from rubber along with some small scrapes. I've been in one major accident (frontal @ about 90mph) where the Hans device it is hooked to saved my neck and probably my life. I am going to retire this helmet this next month. Why? The neck straps are showing so much wear from getting into cars (I probably strap up 20 times at least a weekend) that it looks too frayed.

 

However, my brand new GF>>>E 2005 helmet has only limited use and it's lining is already pulling away due to a shaky install of the padding. It fits real tight and I'll put the Hans buttons on and put the old flower pot back into my bag for emergencies.

 

What's the bottom line? DO NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES save money on your helmet by buying a cheap offbrand unit. By that I mean it's OK to buy a 1st line manufacturer at a discount. A brand new topline SA2000 is really cheap nowdays. Get that at a minimum. If you're going to do this for a year or 2 get an SA2005! If you just want to run HPDE and you'll never get into a caged race car (even as a passenger) then you're OK with an M-rated helmet. Remember all that fancy paint and the big chin guard on a dirt bike helmet don't do a thing for safety in a rollover and may even be hazardous. The amount my neck stretched and the residual pain I feel every day reminds me that the next purchase will be a KEVLAR (lighter) unit.

[TurboShortBus]

Remember all that fancy paint and the big chin guard on a dirt bike helmet don't do a thing for safety in a rollover and may even be hazardous.

We will (and have) fail you in tech if you show up with a dirt bike helmet or any helmet that does not have a proper Snell designation.

 

Mark

[lee33lyn]

I ended up getting a Bell SA 2005 5408 full face helmet from Discovery parts with 10% discount with the Sparkle Pony promotion.Thanks for all the good tips. That Sparkle Pony saved about thirty bucks!

[kbrew8991]

You're welcome, good choice on the helmet btw (I just ordered the same one + the R3 H&N restraint)

 

- KB, aka Sparkle Pony, ugh