cstreit911 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Matt, I don't believe there's anyone here who was nailed by a bonehead move that DIDN'T have at least some words with the other driver. It's clear he is concerned about contact with an expensive car and it is natural to a) be concerned about it and b) to be upset with an at-fault driver should it occur. Just as I pointed out that PCA seems to be wrong about us regularly (hence the question at the beginning of this thread), I can assure you that MOST guys I've met from PCA don't have the attitudes that people think they do. I love my AI/CMC/Miata/AIX/HC brothers... I've had fun racing in all groups. I've made fun of every one, myself, and shook my fist at a few bonehead moves. ...and nearly every person I've met in NASA is welcome to share a beer with me. That's the NASA we need to keep up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ed M. Posted December 10, 2008 Members Share Posted December 10, 2008 First of all, there is no such thing as "cheap, slapped together" race cars. The bottom line is, if you are not prepared to be able to COMPLETELY write off your race car, you shouldn't be on track, period - racing or HPDE... That's just the way it is... And this is coming from someone who has never had any contact in 8 total years on track, 5 of those racing until this past weekend: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;(to view, select "view in high quality", bottom right of screen) There will be "racing incidents"... Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwhite Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've seen one historic prototype racer pass another in turn 10B at Road Atlanta and was amazed they tried it in such a bad turn for passing. ??? how is 10b a bad place for passing? i've made plenty of passes there without any contact...10a and 10b are great places for passing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwhite Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 First of all, there is no such thing as "cheap, slapped together" race cars. The bottom line is, if you are not prepared to be able to COMPLETELY write off your race car, you shouldn't be on track, period - racing or HPDE... That's just the way it is... +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillehayd Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I had out-of-class contact in a qualifying session with a CMC car (race was split but quali combined). It was an accident and accidents happen. The other driver saw me and had no idea how much faster I was, shut the door way late and hit me from the outside of the turn in my rear quarter panel. After the session, that driver and a bunch of other CMC/AI driver's worked like crazy to help me get my car squared away and in race shape. The driver also offered to pay for professional repairs. Who knew a bunch of yahoo's with mullets could have that much class? [i keed! I KEED!] You gotta pay to play in racing just like the stock market. Part of the fee is risk. If you can't afford any risk, you can't afford to play. That said, nobody out there is looking for contact (except maybe the Smash Miata guys) and I've found that at least out here people are pretty good about leaving room. The racing is certainly no more aggressive than the BMWCCA or SCCA racing I've done in this region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted December 10, 2008 Members Share Posted December 10, 2008 I haven't been around long, but all the GTS-CMC contact I have seen was the fault of the GTS car making a bad pass. I don't foresee having any contact problems when I change over to GTS. That's only when they dont move out of the way I kid. Most of the faster CMC/AI drivers I know are good about mirror checking and moving when they can. Youre not going to get your own GTS race group outside of nationals. Especially not NASA-NE. I think they normally only have ONE race group since they are a growing region. Come down to NASA-MA and you'll see three packed race groups. We typically race with AI, CMC, FFR, ST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Simard Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've seen one historic prototype racer pass another in turn 10B at Road Atlanta and was amazed they tried it in such a bad turn for passing. ??? how is 10b a bad place for passing? i've made plenty of passes there without any contact...10a and 10b are great places for passing... Showing up at the inside 10b without having started the pass at 10a is a bad idea and what I saw in the historic car example. The passed car in that case was already commited and in no position to leave room that late. I guess you would have to have seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDog Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I haven't been around long, but all the GTS-CMC contact I have seen was the fault of the GTS car making a bad pass. I don't foresee having any contact problems when I change over to GTS. That's only when they dont move out of the way I kid. Most of the faster CMC/AI drivers I know are good about mirror checking and moving when they can. We slow CMC drivers also get out of your way in the corners... on the straights you're supposed to push us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Racing Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 I hate to break it to you but drivers coming from PCA with opinions like yours are more often the problem, not the guys in the 'cheap slapped together' cars. You haven't even raced in NASA and you're making veiled threats towards other drivers. Stay away from in-class battles. Don't put yourself in a bad position for a pass. Do that, and you should have very little to worry about. Didn't mean for that to come off as any form of a threat but I get your point. By the same token, I may not have done a NASA race yet, but that does not, by any strech of the imagination, make me a neophyte to the sport. I've been doing this since the early 90's and this to me is homework in preparation for the up coming season. Better to be prepared for what to potentially expect that be blindsided. That's what makes me and others like me good, safe racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon in STL Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Oh, well. I was hoping my little lobbying experiment for out of class cars to give way would have taken on more momentum..... Damon in STL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Andrews Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 First of all, there is no such thing as "cheap, slapped together" race cars. The bottom line is, if you are not prepared to be able to COMPLETELY write off your race car, you shouldn't be on track, period - racing or HPDE... That's just the way it is... And this is coming from someone who has never had any contact in 8 total years on track, 5 of those racing until this past weekend: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;(to view, select "view in high quality", bottom right of screen) There will be "racing incidents"... Ed Damn Ed that sucks. I watched that happen in my rearview mirror. It looked like slow motion from my seat but it looked bad from your seat. I hope the car is not overly wounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Crawford Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I hate to break it to you but drivers coming from PCA with opinions like yours are more often the problem, not the guys in the 'cheap slapped together' cars. You haven't even raced in NASA and you're making veiled threats towards other drivers. Stay away from in-class battles. Don't put yourself in a bad position for a pass. Do that, and you should have very little to worry about. Didn't mean for that to come off as any form of a threat but I get your point. By the same token, I may not have done a NASA race yet, but that does not, by any strech of the imagination, make me a neophyte to the sport. I've been doing this since the early 90's and this to me is homework in preparation for the up coming season. Better to be prepared for what to potentially expect that be blindsided. That's what makes me and others like me good, safe racers. You may want to run PCA. Fc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Eiseman Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Racing in NASA you better get used to a lot of traffic ! In GTS4 you will be mainly dealing with slower cars, in fact traffic management during the race especially in MA but also in NE is usually a major issue in our races. We have some real close racing especially if you run at the front. That is why it is so much fun. We all take care of each other. Having said that all the guys I know are more concerned about how well the car's running and less concerned about how pretty it is. A racing bump here or there is usually no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric W. Posted December 11, 2008 Members Share Posted December 11, 2008 Racing in NASA you better get used to a lot of traffic ! In GTS4 you will be mainly dealing with slower cars, in fact traffic management during the race especially in MA but also in NE is usually a major issue in our races. We have some real close racing especially if you run at the front. That is why it is so much fun. We all take care of each other. Having said that all the guys I know are more concerned about howwell the car's running and less concerned about how pretty it is. A racing bump here or there is usually no big deal. Phil! You get that NJ video up yet??? Matt: I push when I can, but sometimes Colin pays me to just push him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 ...As I read through this thread, I realize we are apparently not the problem, the less expensive car classes are, no offense to them, they need racing room too. FWIW, if I'm making a pass on $2000 Honda of Chevy, (no offense to said cars), that was slapped together the night before, and I endure contact because he shut the door in a corner on me, he and I will have a major problem come race end. Umm, I have a cheap car. My 944 spec is cheap car. It was not slapped together the night before, but you still make look at it as cheap car. Well let me say that what you drive is much less important than HOW YOU DRIVE. Frankly just because you have put an insane level of money into your race car does not give you the right to have every one back away from you. Once you get on track you race and every one equal. Some cars are fast and some are slow. Some expensive and some cheap. When it comes to on track stuff fault is not determined by who had the cheap or expensive car. It is determined by the situation on track. So if you don't want some guy to shut the door on you don't get in that place on the track. Also just because you may have fast car does not give you right to muscle through a corner. Slow cars have right to racing as well. So that shutting the door move you think happen, may just be that you assume once he saw you he would stay 40 feet off line and slow to 30 mph to let you by. Don't expect it to happen. BTW... What hurts more a guy on shoe string budget gets his cheap car wiped out or some guy will more money than imaginable gets one of facny 911 cups wiped out. Sure one guy may be out 100k vs 10k, but I know some guys where 100k is no big deal, but 10k means out of race for 2-3 years. Point is a good racer will respect all others on the track no mater what they drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Racing Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 To set the record straight here, perhaps my choice of words were incorrect. My thoughts lie with that person who has that bare bones race car, no matter what it may be, put no real time in developing it and wants his racing room and is willing to do whatever it takes to stay in front of whomever it may be that is looking to overtake safely. This may be the same person that does not care if he closes the door at the expense of his car and perhaps someone else's. It's the careless person I'm referring to here. PCA has it's stereotypes, I agree, but so do other clubs like SCCA. I have seen plenty of carnage in a PCA race and have been fortunate to avoid those situations. I am a regular guy like the rest of you looking to go out and have fun with my car. I bought my ride 6 years ago for $13000. I am, like many of you, a budget racer of sorts. It took that much time to sort it out and would hate to start over and probably couldn't afford to do so in our current economic climate. I would never put myself above anyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmwhite Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Umm, I have a cheap car. My 944 spec is cheap car. It was not slapped together the night before, but you still make look at it as cheap car. Well let me say that what you drive is much less important than HOW YOU DRIVE. Frankly just because you have put an insane level of money into your race car does not give you the right to have every one back away from you. Once you get on track you race and every one equal. Some cars are fast and some are slow. Some expensive and some cheap. When it comes to on track stuff fault is not determined by who had the cheap or expensive car. It is determined by the situation on track. So if you don't want some guy to shut the door on you don't get in that place on the track. Also just because you may have fast car does not give you right to muscle through a corner. Slow cars have right to racing as well. So that shutting the door move you think happen, may just be that you assume once he saw you he would stay 40 feet off line and slow to 30 mph to let you by. Don't expect it to happen. BTW... What hurts more a guy on shoe string budget gets his cheap car wiped out or some guy will more money than imaginable gets one of facny 911 cups wiped out. Sure one guy may be out 100k vs 10k, but I know some guys where 100k is no big deal, but 10k means out of race for 2-3 years. Point is a good racer will respect all others on the track no mater what they drive. great post! VERY well put! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Crawford Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Tough crowd.... .... I personally think if one would subsitute the word " careless driver " for aggressive driver.... it would work much better. Everyone here in the southeast group is aggressive... but I can say we have had no carnage this year, not one I believe. Good hard clean racing.... side by side ... fender to fender. Now everyone can cool the exhaust and welcome some fresh meat into our pot... He is a 914 man......... Fc SouthEast GTS5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew968 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Here in the Great Lakes region we have pretty good turnout for the GTS group. I am amazed at times as hard and as close as we race that we are still a pretty safe group. We give each other racing room and respect each other enough so as to not create intentional contact. There have been times when I had to check the car after the race was over...not a scratch!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon in STL Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Okay...enough about contact and aggressive driving! Here's a vid from Autobahn this year where we had some good hard clean racing! Most of the time you can pick and choose your battles! Some excus....um...some notes: This was my first time at Autobahn South (I was lucky enough to run the full track the day before). So, I was somewhat learning the last part of the track during the race. And, I kinda missed it on the pressures....way low. But, the tires really came in nicely towards the end of the race. Damon in STL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Simard Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 That was great video editing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 To set the record straight here, perhaps my choice of words were incorrect. My thoughts lie with that person who has that bare bones race car, no matter what it may be, put no real time in developing it and wants his racing room and is willing to do whatever it takes to stay in front of whomever it may be that is looking to overtake safely. This may be the same person that does not care if he closes the door at the expense of his car and perhaps someone else's. It's the careless person I'm referring to here. PCA has it's stereotypes, I agree, but so do other clubs like SCCA. I have seen plenty of carnage in a PCA race and have been fortunate to avoid those situations. I am a regular guy like the rest of you looking to go out and have fun with my car. I bought my ride 6 years ago for $13000. I am, like many of you, a budget racer of sorts. It took that much time to sort it out and would hate to start over and probably couldn't afford to do so in our current economic climate. I would never put myself above anyone here. Look take out the stuff about what the car looks like I am all with you. I have seen plenty of guys with nice well prepared yet and expensive cars still be idiots on the track. What car a person drives plays no role in what kind of driver they are. The car could be old and beat, but that does not mean they are carless racers. The thing that gets me about PCA sterotypical attitude is that some how if you drive a cheap car it implies you are careless. Careless a-holes drive all kinds of cars. Keep that in mind when race in non-PCA enviroment. Good luck in GTS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Racing Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 (edited) Thanks Joe and hope I didn't ruffle any feathers, wasn't my intention... Edited December 13, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Crawford Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Thanks Joe and how I didn't ruffle any feathers, wasn't my intention... I am looking foward to running with you at a track soon.......... Fc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 I am looking foward to running into you at a track soon.......... Fc Fixed it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.