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2009 PT/TT Rule Updates and Changes--12-19-08


Greg G.

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IF NOT, THEN YOU DO HAVE AN ADVANTAGE BY RUNNING THEM STAGGERED, AND THIS DISCUSSION IS STUPID!

 

Well You clearly don't understand my specific point of view and are acting childish. There is no reason for you to go spouting off at the mouth like that because you THINK people are trying to get an advantage. Here is my exact reasoning behind this discussion..and mine only.

 

1. My car came with 17x9.5 wheels on the front (not conduscive for a 295mm tire).

2. My car came with 18x10.5 on the rear.

3. You are forcing me to spend A LOT of money to buy wheels and tires to take advantage of the points you are docking me for. (yes I can hear all of you crying for me, but I try to save as much loot as possible)

4. The 2 points I do not use by running a wider tire on the front could be used elsewhere to help offset the smaller tire contact patch.

 

What is so hard to understand about this Greg? Maybe you should have a little more faith that people may not be trying to cheat by questioning a rule by it's verbage or intent. You are the National head cheese for TT - right? So am I out of line to expect a "better prepared" response than the one you listed above?

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I would like to see some type of reasoning that the S54 M Coupes/Roadsters got an extra 7 points.

 

Along this same line, what about the E36 and E46 M3's?

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I would like to see some type of reasoning that the S54 M Coupes/Roadsters got an extra 7 points.

 

Along this same line, what about the E36 and E46 M3's?

 

I think I figured it out for my car. The weight listed is 3141, guessing I dyno around 270 to the rear wheels. This works out to 11.63:1 ratio. PTC is listed at 12.00:1 ration. I guess I am not planning on being competitive in TTB.

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I would like to see some type of reasoning that the S54 M Coupes/Roadsters got an extra 7 points.

 

Along this same line, what about the E36 and E46 M3's?

 

I think I figured it out for my car. The weight listed is 3141, guessing I dyno around 270 to the rear wheels. This works out to 11.63:1 ratio. PTC is listed at 12.00:1 ration. I guess I am not planning on being competitive in TTB.

 

Eric:

 

You are coming out with me in GTS next year, so don't sweat it.

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  • National Staff
IF NOT, THEN YOU DO HAVE AN ADVANTAGE BY RUNNING THEM STAGGERED, AND THIS DISCUSSION IS STUPID!

 

Well You clearly don't understand my specific point of view and are acting childish. There is no reason for you to go spouting off at the mouth like that because you THINK people are trying to get an advantage. Here is my exact reasoning behind this discussion..and mine only.

 

1. My car came with 17x9.5 wheels on the front (not conduscive for a 295mm tire).

2. My car came with 18x10.5 on the rear.

3. You are forcing me to spend A LOT of money to buy wheels and tires to take advantage of the points you are docking me for. (yes I can hear all of you crying for me, but I try to save as much loot as possible)

4. The 2 points I do not use by running a wider tire on the front could be used elsewhere to help offset the smaller tire contact patch.

 

What is so hard to understand about this Greg? Maybe you should have a little more faith that people may not be trying to cheat by questioning a rule by it's verbage or intent. You are the National head cheese for TT - right? So am I out of line to expect a "better prepared" response than the one you listed above?

I tell you what. You continue with your self serving discussion without me or NASA answering the same questions over and over. If you don't like the answer, too bad. You are the one that is acting like a child. "Give me what I want or I'm going to call you names and tell you how to do your job". I never write in full caps, but in this case, some of you just can't seem to get it. If you would like to have a points advantage for running staggered tire sizes on a Corvette, we will be willing to assess the car another asterisk so you can get it. I'm done with this discussion.

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I would like to see some type of reasoning that the S54 M Coupes/Roadsters got an extra 7 points.

 

Along this same line, what about the E36 and E46 M3's?

I have already answered this elsewhere on these forums (no, I'm not going to search to find it for you). So, once again, the E36 and E46 M3's were dropped an asterisk level in '07 and '08. We have decided that we want them back to where they were for the prior years, especially since ECU chips and reflashes and strut tower bars are now free. It is a wash for most of them. For the rest, they can ask for Dyno classing if they are using a stock ECU and think that they are not classed correctly. The M Coupes and Roadsters were given a classing "gift" many years ago. Since then, we have determined that the cars are fine, and the drivers that had them back then were the "issue" as to performance. They are now on par with similar cars.

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I just have one question:

 

If I run smaller rear tires on my Neon, can I have those points back? The rules don't seem to be clear on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding! Actually, I have just one statement. I've known plenty of keyboard warriors in my time, and served a couple tours of duty in keyboard-intensive fighting zones myself, but when it comes to the guy in that PTD Miata... sometimes it's all we can do to keep him from whipping the **** out of people at the Waffle House jukebox.

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Greg, you do a great job! Us competitors appreciate your sacrifice. I’m going to ask Jerry to double your pay…

 

One quick question. Maybe it’s been asked before but I haven’t seen it. The 2nd gen Honda CRX is classed 7 points lower than the 1st gen. Yes the 2nd gen is heavier, but it is consistently faster than the older model with 17 less HP, strut torsion bar, and solid rear axle suspension.

 

Honda CRX Si 1.5L ('85-'87) 1978 PTF**

CRX Si ('88-'91) 2174 PTF*

 

 

TIA

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Greg, you do a great job! Us competitors appreciate your sacrifice. I’m going to ask Jerry to double your pay…

 

One quick question. Maybe it’s been asked before but I haven’t seen it. The 2nd gen Honda CRX is classed 7 points lower than the 1st gen. Yes the 2nd gen is heavier, but it is consistently faster than the older model with 17 less HP, strut torsion bar, and solid rear axle suspension.

 

Honda CRX Si 1.5L ('85-'87) 1978 PTF**

CRX Si ('88-'91) 2174 PTF*

 

 

TIA

Allen,

The lighter weight and better wt/power ratio of the 1st gen puts it into the higher base class. You could always ask for a Dyno re-classing if the 1st gen power is lower than expected, or if you are not running at 1978lbs or lower.

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Wow! 11 pages of rancor! I haven't seen a discussion like this since two years ago, when we tried to modify the AWD penalty that put my 355 hp 1990 AWD Eclipse up against 410 hp Z06 Corvettes in TTA. I don't recall any name-calling back then, though. Greg was adamant, unreasonable and unyielding, but at least he was nice about it.

 

The Eclipse is long gone and so was I last year.

 

I have a 1996 BMW 332ti now, but I have no idea where it fits in TT because the on-line classifier is down, being updated with the new rules. Where does a 1996 318/1997 M3 conversion fit? It's all stock 97 M3 with big brakes. TTC maybe?

 

Rich

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