How long did you spend in each HPDE Level?

[Overclocked]

I am just curious as to how quickly an average driver progresses through the HPDE levels.

 

So how many track days did you spend in 1,2,3,4 (or in a comparable group in another program)? If you had previous driving experience, please note that too.

[Kanmer]

I started this insane hobby in Oct of 05.

 

Level 1 or equivalent 6 days First year

Level 2 or equivalent 10 days Second Year

Level 3 or equivalent 23 days Third year

 

Instructor school at VIR in Feb.

 

Tracks include Carolina Motorsports Park, Putnam Park, VIR (North & Full), Barber Motorsports Park, Road Atlanta, Summit Point, & Daytona (Rolex Circuit)

 

Bob

[obzezzed350]

Its really up to how fast you learn. It takes seat time so you shouldnt rush it. I spent about 4 days in HPDE1, about 6 in HPDE2, and am currently in 3 where I have run about 10. You shouldnt really take anyones timeline and try to duplicate it. You will advance the more comfortable you become on the track. I have run Sebring, Homestead, Daytona, and Road Atlanta.

[dbright007]

You shouldnt really take anyones timeline and try to duplicate it. You will advance the more comfortable you become on the track.

 

Very wise words.

I stayed in DE1 a bit longer than I would have in some regions because DE2 is un-instructed in my area (SE). DE1 and 2 were also on track in the same sessions.

 

Don't set an agenda at first. Have fun and learn. You and your instructor will know when it is time.

[drumbeater]

My impression was it depended on your goals. If you want to race, I was told by racers and instructors to let NASA know that at every HPDE event you go to and you can go that direction at whatever speed you are comfortable. If you want to do HPDE and maybe TT you can go at your own pace. I did about 5-6 HPDE 1, 5 HPDE2, and got signed off on HPDE 3 after that. I'm doing comp school in February.

 

DB

[Overclocked]

I guess the only reason I ask, is that I kind of got the impression that I was doing fairly well and going pretty quickly through it.

 

I spent 2 days with a non-NASA group on the Streets of Willow Springs (1 day forward, 1 day backward) and essentially two days at Thunderhill with HPDE 2. On the second day at Thunderhill, an instructor who rode with me said that he would have passed me on to HPDE 3. Unfortunately I wasn't even considering that was possible that weekend, so I didn't think to ask the head instructor to watch me. I've gotten numerous compliments on my line, smoothness, maturity, and many were impressed to find out that my Legacy wasn't turbo-charged and I had no previous experience.

 

So is there any way to know if I should pursue this a little harder? This all happened this past summer and I'll be graduating college in May. I have decided to take a year off, but as of right now I intend to start grad school right after that. According to people I met, I'll likely be able to drive my car in HPDE 3 for a few track days, but soon after that I'll need to either get a higher performance car or drop some serious money into my Legacy. This is the real dilemma, as my car already is most of my total asset.

 

I'm guessing that the answer can't be found until I get a competition license. What are other people's thoughts?

[obzezzed350]

You are kinda all over the place so Ill try and sort it out. First of all, the best thing you can do is ride with several instructors to get different feedback. You said yourself that you have limited experience. I know the feeling, when I first started, I felt like I had it on lock and that I was ready to move up. I got to 2 and spent some more time there and realized that while my line may of seemed smooth or fast, it was far from perfect. You need more track time. Its one thing to get of HPDE1 so you can experiment a little driving solo. But moving to HPDE3/4 takes alot more.

HPDE4 is for the most advanced. You can pass in corners, these guys have developed track instinct, these guys are fast. It doesnt matter on what your car is, there are guys in Dodge Neons out there so dont think you need performance mods. In the Florida region, HPDE4 runs with the time trial guys who have comp/TT licenses. You dont need any kind of comp license unless those are your intentions. However these take sometime to work up to and are more than just a simple checkride from an instructor.

[TurboShortBus]

According to people I met, I'll likely be able to drive my car in HPDE 3 for a few track days, but soon after that I'll need to either get a higher performance car or drop some serious money into my Legacy.

There is absolutely no need to go to that kind of extreme in HPDE-3 or any other HPDE level; you're likely talking to the wrong people. Just "run whatcha brung" and have a good time.

 

Mark

[soundguydave]

According to people I met, I'll likely be able to drive my car in HPDE 3 for a few track days, but soon after that I'll need to either get a higher performance car or drop some serious money into my Legacy.

There is absolutely no need to go to that kind of extreme in HPDE-3 or any other HPDE level; you're likely talking to the wrong people. Just "run whatcha brung" and have a good time. Ever see a Spec Miata successfully pass and hold off a 65 Shelby GT350 (PT-D)? I have... 1.6L of buzzsaw power, but a hell of a driver!

 

Mark

 

I'll echo that comment, it's not about the car, it's about the driver... One of my instructors told a story about a day he spent instructing for a corvette owner's group, and because he drove a Mustang, they wouldn't listen to him. So he challenged them to do a follow the leader, with increasing lap speeds, and after four laps, he had gotten each one of them to go off... He was driving a trailblazer at the time, normally his tow vehicle. After that the 'vette guys actually started to pay attention to him.

 

DE1 is the entry level, but don't be too quick to jump out, having an instructor in the car with you is priceless!

DE2 is the same run rules, but you're alone. It's all on you. You have to have a solid grasp of the techniques to know if you're executing properly.

DE3 is a HUGE step up. Nobody in that group struggles with finding the line, they all studied the track, and the situational awareness is high. Point-by (in my region) is optional, but strongly recommended, and we run a lot of exercises, particularly off-line driving. If you're still struggling with figuring out how to balance the car with the throttle, you're not ready.

DE4 (I understand) is an even bigger step up. Passing is unrestricted, and you are EXPECTED to have eyes in the back of your head, and know who and what is around you at all times. You should also have a pretty good idea of how different cars will handle different situations, and the only way to do that is to get track time where you're paying attention to the other drivers as much as you're paying attention to your own situation. Courtesy is extreme at this point, as you will also be running with the TT group, and are expected to yield to them if they are on a flying lap. That means seeing them coming, and either pushing through the next corner to give them a clean pass on the following straight, or backing off to let them by before the corner.

 

In the end, it all boils down to how many hours you log on the track with other drivers, in different situations.

[kbrew8991]

I run TT competitively in a 117whp car - focus on the driver because a good car is just one check away

[mcmmotorsports]

focus on the driver because a good car is just one check away

 

Quote of the year!

[trhoads]

NASA-Road Atlanta-August 2005-HPDE 1-I knew nothing about driving on a track, and it showed.

Private Solo Track Day at TGPR-January 2006-I learned a ton at this event, had some great instruction.

NASA-Road Atlanta-March 2006 HPDE-1-Applied what I learned in my previous two events, and did well enough to get signed off for DE2.

NASA-Roebling Road-May 2006 HPDE-2-Had an instructor who did not really care, and signed me off for 3, I knew I was not ready, so I stayed in DE2.

NASA-Roebling Road-September 2006 HPDE 2-Had a great instructor, who helped me learn the things that I really needed to know to move to DE3

NASA-CMP-July 2007-HPDE 2, signed off for Solo & HPDE 3-Actually felt like I was ready to move to DE3 at this point.

NASA-Roebling Road-September 2007-HPDE 3-Eye opener, went from being one of the fater cars in DE2, to bringing up the rear. But it teaches you a lot.

NASA-Barber-October 2007-HPDE 2, Signed off for HPDE 3-Had never been to BMP, wanted a little more instruction after the Roebling fiasco.

NASA-CMP-March 2008-HPDE3-Now I feel like 3 is where I can stand on my own two feet.

NASA-Roebling Road-May 2008-HPDE3-Now I love being in DE3, and going back to limited passing will be tough.

NASA-Barber-June 2008-HPDE3

Private Solo Track Day at TGPR-August 2008

Private Solo Track Day at TGPR-October 2008

 

The progression is so different for everyone, some people fly through, and are comfy with that, some of us want to spend as much time with someone in the right seat as we can. There is always more to learn. Some is self taught, some is crit from a qualified instructor. Don't rush it, take your time, when you move to solo, it is all on you, no one to help you out, and there is a lot going on, I have seen a number of people in DE3 that aren't ready for it yet. Dont be one of those.

[jason]

04- 1/2 season autox

05- full season autox (2 events/month Mar-Nov)

06- full season autox/2 highspeed autox/2-3 track weekends

07- full season autox/4 highspeed autox/8-10 track weekends

08- full season NASA HPDE and other track days, TT @ end of year

09- full season NASA TT

 

Something that really helped me on my checkrides was to go to the track with a different club prior to going with NASA for your checkride. And take every chance to have someone more experienced ride along or to ride along with them.

[kbrew8991]

00 through 04 - average of 2 autocrosses per month

05 - HPDE 1 & 2

06 - HPDE 3 & TT including NASA Nats (3rd)

07 - TT, One Lap of America, NASA Nats (2nd)

08 - TT, Comp School, and first 4 races

09 - TT, Racing, Enduros, NASA Nats (racing & TT), LeMons, and One Lap planned