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what tire for first timer?


lee33lyn

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I have two sets of tires. One is a goodyear vette runflat street tire. The other is a used set of hoosier grand am race tire. Which set should I use for my first Hpde in feb. at VIR?

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I'd go with the hoosier grand am race tire. Some people start on the street tires for a couple of sessions then swap later just to feel the difference.

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you're not going to get anywhere close to the limits of either tire in your first time out. The stickier tires will mask some of your un-smoothness and you will not learn as much.

bruce

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you shouldn't be considering race tires at all yet

 

iagree.gif

 

It will be cold in February at VIR.

 

Rookie driver+Cold Race Tires=DISASTER!

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I used the crappiest Hankook street tires for my first three or four weekends. I was told by literally everyone to save my money while in HPDE 1.

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I found the race tires for 70$ a piece and I couldn't resist. I had planned on using the street goodyears until they wore out for HPDE.It might be fun to take both sets ,run a couple sessions on street tires then run a couple of sessions on race tires to see the diff.

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run the streets the whole event. switching back and forth will just upset what you are learning. any new driver really should stay on street tires, until their skill and confidence level has exceeded what a street tire can provide. driving on streets also makes errors more evident, so that you can learn more, but they are also more forgiving. a GAC tire, it will grip, grip, grip, give. Very little communication, especially with a novice. do yourself a favor, use the streets. you will learn more.

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Yeah,I want to learn as much as possible. I'll stay with the street tires and ask my instructors when to switch.

 

Okay, here is the deal (I was in the same boat as you). Sometimes you look at an HPDE event as a means to get out there and have fun pushing your car to the limit. Sometimes you wanna get out there with the best handling car possible so that you know that if your performance is lack, then you can blame it on yourself, not your car. Sometimes, you really don't want to be out there in a Yugo, you want to be out there in a Porsche.

BUT, it really comes down to what your end goal is. If you wish to develop your road course driving skills so that someday, you can be an accomplished racer or time trialer, then you need to put your gut feelings and desires aside and do what is best for your future. If you are really just going out there once or twice to get the itch out of your system, then use the GAC tires. BUT!! and I emphasize the word but, be very,very careful on the slicks. As I mentioned, it is going to be cold and without the experience needed to safely get the heat in those tires, YOU WILL WRECK AND YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR CAR! Regardless, I would stick with the street tires, if only for your first weekend, so that you can get a feel for what it is to push your car to the limits in a controlled environment. After you get out there for the weekend, then maybe the next one, bring the slicks with you to try.

I had 13 years of stock car racing experience when I did my first DE. I really thought that I should be out there in a race car and that my circle track skillz would be sufficient enough to showcase my talent as a road course racer....I WAS WRONG! It is a different animal and if you have a long term goal in this twisty stuff, take it from me and EVERYONE ELSE up here that just take your time. You will get more track time if your car aint sitting on a flatbed getting towed home because you wanted to go fast right out the box.

 

I would like to make reference to another thread up here where a rookie driver feels that he should be given his competition license right away, he doesn't want to waste his time in the lower DE ranks.

 

Here was my reply to him and PLEASE remember it.

 

i dont want 2 waist my $$ if im gona be held back 2 long. $$$ is 2 tight today to waist it hangin in the lower groups when u r good and need to move up in a hurry.

 

You might want to consider a different hobby.

 

Racing involves four things:

 

Talent

Patience

Experience

Money

 

1 you are born with, 1 you must learn, 1 you develop over time and the final one you either have or you don't.

 

You can get by with 3 out of the 4, but if you only have one of them....don't expect much to come from it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With that said, VIR is one of the greatest tracks out there and you will have a blast! I love that place. PLUS, if you like steak, check out the Homestead restaurant in nearby Timberlake, NC. Their Filet Mignon is the best you will EVER have.

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I get up every morning and read that thread...it puts a smile on my face while I drink my morning coffee!

 

You would think it was a "waist" of time, but it's not.

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There's no set timeframe. You'll know when you're ready. A good indicator would be... when you are able to four wheel drift through every corner on every lap of every session with your street tires HOWLING.

 

Jon

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There's no set timeframe. You'll know when you're ready. A good indicator would be... when you are able to four wheel drift through every corner on every lap of every session with your street tires HOWLING.

 

Jon

 

Or you get black flagged for drifting when you weren't trying

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After how much time would you advise switching to R compounds (assuming I desire to do so)? Would it be best to wait until I reach HPDE 2?

 

 

It all depends on your skills and wallet. My take on it is that you should wear through a set of sticky street tires at least before you jump to R compounds. Like was said earlier in this thread, street tires will help you know when you are making mistakes. For at least your first few weekends you aren't going to be anywhere near the limit of even street tires. The limit of race tires is so much higher that you will be able to make all kinds of mistakes and not pay the consequences for them. Consequences are not always bad, usually its just minor stuff, but the minor stuff adds up, and if you spend your first many events on race tires you will get those mistakes programmed into your head/muscles as ok. Then you won't be as fast as you could be.

Rcomps break away a lot faster than Street tires as well, street tires are gradual where as R comps are more of a knife edge kind of thing.

 

Also R compounds are expensive and fast wearing, why waste them in your first season when you don't know how to go fast yet anyway?

Buy a set of good sticky street tires, go out have fun, then when you wear through those make a decision as to whether you think you are ready for R comps.

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I have been running HPDEs for 5 years and still don't run R compunds...I run Falken RT615's cheap and sticky enough...still scream a little...and they wear really well...I am ~1 sec slower than most suspension modified M3's on R compounds with a stock 350z.

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For a first timer R comps or true race tires are w/out a doubt a BAD idea. After your first event, you should discover that you had no clue what going fast in a car is all about. This is because it's impossible to see the limits of your car on the street, regardless of how big a stupid jerk you are for even trying to go so fast. When your car hits the track, tires and brakes heat up after a number of laps, giving you more grip than can be acheived on the street because there's no way to heat your tires on the street. Then you'll start to learn the lines and find time from proper line and car management. Nothing but seat time can develop this skill set.

 

Even some people with a lot of experience have no business putting R comps on their cars because they don't push the car hard enough to see the benefits and some cars do not have alignment settings (or the means to adjust the alignment) to take the most advantage of R comps. Meaning, if your car has little or no negative camber in the front suspension, your car is going to gobble up the outer portion of the front tires. Street tires are harder and can withstand this abuse a bit better. R comps notsomuch- you can cord them within a short time because of their soft compound.

 

And i've got to say comparing one's time on street tires vs. another guy in a different but somewhat equal car on R comps is an sketchy comparison, given the varying level of driver talent (and balls). It's more about the driver than the car, and how well set-up the cars are. Example, a friend (who also happens to be a GTS4 frontrunner) in his stock Porsche 911 (993), on crappy street tires regulary used to whoop-up on us posers in our old 911 cars with R comps set up for track use. It's taken us a couple seasons to finally start turning some times in our cars that exceed his on street tires. Granted the 993 is faster in a straight line and has superior suspension geometry, but it's also quite heavy relative to the earlier cars and much more softly sprung. Our lighter, stiffer suspended 911 cars on R comps should be as fast or faster in the right hands. Took us a while, but we've finally got the skill set to run some respectable times- as a result of seat time to learn the track and the cars.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I will agree with others. Your tire selection process should be "I need something that's safe, round and black."

 

Maybe not a good idea, but I did my first DE on Pep Boys tires. Not sticky at all, but I sure learned a lot...

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  • 2 weeks later...

After my first time I know realize the importance of starting out on street tires. When your pushing the limits they scream like my daughter when she doesn't get what she wants.Later in the day ,I rode with my instructor in his race car and I only heard his tires chirp twice the whole session .And every corner I could have swore we where coming off the track.Both time they chirped they broke lose and he caught it (good times).Street tires have a warning siren when pushing thier limits. Race tires don't.Thanks for all the good advice. I'll be on street tire for a while.

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