Rim question

[KTL]

Rim rash is a non-issue. I have to sorta bash NASA for their tech inspection. In my experience the rim rash isn't something even remotely considered by the tech inspectors since the tech is only a quick once-over of the car. IMO NASA tech inspection needs to be a little more thorough. They don't look over the car nearly enough and leave too much to assuming the driver/tech sheet signee has proven its taken care with the tech inspection sheet. Tire wear/condition, ample brake pad thickness, harness mounting (some people are really dangerously creative with this), throttle operation, etc. etc. have not been really closely looked at in my experience. My car is 21 yrs old, so i'd expect some scrutiny on it. Instead, it seems like they just give it a cursory look and send me on my way. I'm a total preparation anal idiot and I feel like i'm plenty knowledgeable when it comes to being on top of my car's systems' condition, so i'm not a big risk. It's the guy who doesn't know a whole lot about cars or is complacent and is trying to "sneak" his car through tech that concerns me. [/rant] **off the proverbial soapbox**

 

As far as the seat selection, i'd make sure the low cost seat you're looking at suits your needs. Try to find one you can sit in for a long time. You don't want to pay $300, use it for a year or less and then decide you want something that fits better. Especially if you make the mistake of sitting in your friend's nice seat....... Just save up your bucks and get a nice one from the start. Just don't think that you have to spend a ton of money to get a good one. I got a Cobra Imola for just under $600, which i'm not saying is cheap by any means but it is cheaper than comparable seats, and it's an extremely nice seat for the money. Check out their seats, as they're as good or better than a comparable Sparco, Recaro, Racetech, Momo, OMP, etc. etc.

[soundguydave]

Rim rash is a non-issue. I have to sorta bash NASA for their tech inspection. In my experience the rim rash isn't something even remotely considered by the tech inspectors since the tech is only a quick once-over of the car. IMO NASA tech inspection needs to be a little more thorough. They don't look over the car nearly enough and leave too much to assuming the driver/tech sheet signee has proven its taken care with the tech inspection sheet. Tire wear/condition, ample brake pad thickness, harness mounting (some people are really dangerously creative with this), throttle operation, etc. etc. have not been really closely looked at in my experience. My car is 21 yrs old, so i'd expect some scrutiny on it. Instead, it seems like they just give it a cursory look and send me on my way. I'm a total preparation anal idiot and I feel like i'm plenty knowledgeable when it comes to being on top of my car's systems' condition, so i'm not a big risk. It's the guy who doesn't know a whole lot about cars or is complacent and is trying to "sneak" his car through tech that concerns me. [/rant] **off the proverbial soapbox**

 

 

Speaking as someone who has done HPDE inspection duty, and as a former ASE mechanic, I think we do a fairly reasonable job of spot-checking the biggies. This may vary from region to region, but it really comes down to the "vibe" you get from the car and the driver. If someone is "off" enough to show up with worn brakes, they'll most likely wind up choking elsewhere that we would catch. If I see a car that is questionable, I'll peek a bit harder. One of the things that I do as part of our standard inspection is step on the brake pedal, both to check that the brake lights are functional, AND to see what the pedal feels like. If it's not high and hard, then I start REALLY looking at the car a little more closely. Some of the "audit triggers" for me are any signs of fluid leaks, the brake pedal feel, and the condition of the brake fluid reservoir. I don't care if the engine is dirty, but I would expect to see a clean master cylinder reservoir cap, and full fluid level with clean fluid. If you haven't put fresh brakes on the car, you probably didn't flush or top off the fluid either. If you have fluid leaks, even minor ones, then there is a much higher probability that there's also something else wrong with the car.

 

The real ones that I worry about the most are the DE-1/2 people, where they are just discovering what needs to be done to the car to survive a track weekend. That said, I have failed DE-4 and TT cars before, for bad wheel bearings, worn tie-rods, and a few other things. Please don't hate the tech people, we're just trying to keep everybody safe and happy. Having a tie rod fail at 100+MPH would not be fun. Neither would putting each car in the air to personally check brake linings, lug torques, etc. There's also a question of liability if we touch the car mechanically... It's up to the participant to pre-tech their car, before the bring it to the track. If you're honest about checking off the tech form, there will be no problems. If there is a problem, fix it before you get to the track. I'm an inspector, but I also make sure that somebody else goes over my own car, just to have another set of eyes on it.

[OnRails]

It's a shame everybody is so afraid of being sued but it's reality. That's why they don't check the car more than they do. Used to do a lot more than they do now and some of the other groups I run with still check everything over but most are going towards the "Self Certify" method. When I go through NASA tech now it is just basically a brake lights and helmet check. I understand the liability thing and I check my own car out pretty good before every event for my own peace of mind but I do worry sometimes about the "other guy."

[TurboShortBus]

I'm one of the HPDE tech inspectors down here in NASA-FL. A good question to ask a person is, "Did you properly torque the brake fluid and bleed the lugnuts?" This will immediately tell you who is paying attention and who is just "yessing" you. We also occasionally ask, "Did you properly torque the lugnuts with a monkey wrench?"

 

There are other tell-tale items that suggest that we need to look closely at a car. If it shows up in tech with the centercaps on (covering the lugnuts) and the floor mats/radar detector/garage door opener still in, then we'll send them around to try again. One young HPDE-1 driver and his father brought their car to tech with the center caps still on. We asked them to remove the center caps so we could inspect the lugnuts, while the father swore up and down that the car was expertly serviced within the last week and everything was fine. We found a lugnut missing from the right rear wheel; so much for that expert servicing.

 

We try to find a balance between 1) checking every nut and bolt on a car and 2) keeping the tech line length and wait to a reasonable amount. Regardless of how many cars show up each day, we only have a little over an hour to inspect them before the drivers' meeting begins.

 

I agree that over-checking things could cause somebody to mistakenly consider us to be liable if there is a mechanical failure with an item that was specifically checked, and who knows what could happen if an attorney gets involved (fortunately, one of our other HPDE tech inspectors is a bulldog of an attorney). Also, keep in mind that we have no control over what a driver or mechanic does to the car after it leaves tech. As an example, in an early HPDE-3 session at Sebring a few months ago, a car that passed tech managed to lose the left rear wheel heading into turn 17 (the big, funky right). Fortunately, the car and its liberated wheel didn't hit anything. Maybe the lugnuts were properly torqued at the time of tech inspection, but somebody could have changed the tires after inspection and forgot about the torque wrench.

 

The 2 most common HPDE tech failures are 1) missing lugnuts (likely from misplaced security lugnuts) and 2) nonfunctional brake lights. These are the easiest things for a driver to check at home, and will save frustration during inspection.

 

Mark

[AMorgan]

Wow, this post took a serious detour, but i've been reading each post with great interest. The trouble with tech is even if they went through everything, that car only passed tech at that moment. The lost wheel is a good example, and sometimes things just happen. At a Koni Challenge race last year, one of the TSXs lost a tire and hub going into esses off the back straight. You can't tell me that car didn't pass what I would assume is a far more rigorous tech inspection earlier in the weekend. Sometimes stuff just happens, lets keep the info taps open, this is all very fascinating to me.

[getfast]

I'm one of the HPDE tech inspectors down here in NASA-FL. A good question to ask a person is, "Did you properly torque the brake fluid and bleed the lugnuts?" This will immediately tell you who is paying attention and who is just "yessing" you. We also occasionally ask, "Did you properly torque the lugnuts with a monkey wrench?"

 

I like asking 'em what they torqued the lug nuts to. Make 'em give you a number, then check it anyway.

 

Jon

[KTL]

In re-reading my original post, I came across a bit too harsh and i'm actually a bit surprised I wrote what I did. I suppose the rim rash question got my mind thinking about more important things that should be considered, and in my experience some of these other things are not checked for whatever reason. I completely appreciate the work involved in teching the cars, since I do all my own work on my cars and friends' cars- engine reconditioning or swaps, trans rebuilds, suspension work, etc.). I occasionally help with PCA region tech and I agree it's a judgment call from car to car. Plus you can't spend forever going thru each and every vehicle or tech inspection would take all day. Hence the reason for having a tech sheet that requires the driver to show proof and acknowledge that they feel their car is good to go tracking.

 

I also had not considered the potential misinterpreted liabiliity issue for suggesting corrections to be made on someone's car. I agree wholeheartedly that the responsibility lies with the driver and you can control only so much at tech, and have no control over what happens after it leaves. I know people who put their car thru tech and then play around with stuff (e.g. harnesses) that specifically would not pass if put through tech for inspection.

 

My comments are only based on what i've personally seen during inspections at the handful of NASA events i've attended. So i'm certainly not trying to lead a charge based on a huge pool of data that i've collected, saying NASA tech is not good enough. I don't want to come across as bashing NASA tech for being substandard. Just pointing out my experiences with my own car (which I feel is well prepared and shouldn't necessarily need to be highly scrutinized) and how i've seen the cars around me be teched while i'm waiting for my turn to come up. Discussions like this are good, even though some might take exception to what i'm saying, because it gives people a feel for what goes into the tech inspection part of the event- it is NOT an easy task by any means!!!

 

Thanks to the inspectors for the feedback and understanding, and sorry for the semi-hijack of the thread. If nothing else, we can see AMorgan's eyes were opened a little bit more by this discussion!

[soundguydave]

No worries from me, I was just answering your VERY VALID concerns about how we handle tech inspections. There's no way that we can go over every car, every weekend, to make sure that every "I" is dotted, and every "T" crossed, but I'm sure that you can appreciate how we hit the big stuff... I had a TT car owner get into my face about failing him on tech for "something funky" in the L/F suspension of his 'vette, due to a "clunk" when checking the wheel bearing and tie-rod play. He came back around the second time and actually apologised; it turned out that when he did his alignment, he forgot to tighten the upper control arm bolts.

 

In reality, HPDE tech isn't really that hard to pass, just have your car in reasonable mechanical condition, and actually check the car before you check-off the tech form. Passing tech isn't something that you should have to worry about, and if the car won't pass tech, you really shouldn't be trying to run it on the track...