ra-1 extension, now good for all of 09

[Redstone]

We've run the R888's for a few weekends now and still haven't got the handling down. We ran R888's in the 25hr of Thunderhill too. We used up one set, and a 2nd set was 1/2 worn. We probably would have used two more tires if we had run the full 25 hours.

 

The worn set from the 25 we ran again at the March 21-22nd event at Infineon. The left front corded during sundays race. I rotated and check the tires every other session. Before sundays race there were no signs of excessive wear. I was shocked to see them cord so fast. That set is now done.

 

I can't complain too much since we did ALOT of laps on that set.

 

The 1/2 worn set from the 25 I used again on Jan 2nd at Thunderhill, where they did about 60laps. Austin also borrowed them for the March event, where they saw another 25-30 laps. I ran them again this past weekend at the Redline Time Attack, where the gripped pretty well. They still have decent tread left and I plan on using them at the next NASA event.

 

So, are RA1's better? I'm not sure. Yes, initialy the RA1 was faster than the R888 because I hadn't figured out the correct tire pressure and suspension alignment to take full advantage of the R888. Still a set of shaved RA1's feel a bit better than the R888's. I am running the R888's are full tread (6/32") vs. my RA1's at (4/32")

 

I think the life span of an R888 is shorter than the RA1, but they may end up being faster. Only lots of testing will tell.

 

-Graham

 

I can't really compare my times to last year either, since last year we ran a B16A and so far this year we ran a Type R B18C.

[philstireservice]

We've run the R888's for a few weekends now and still haven't got the handling down. We ran R888's in the 25hr of Thunderhill too. We used up one set, and a 2nd set was 1/2 worn. We probably would have used two more tires if we had run the full 25 hours.

 

The worn set from the 25 we ran again at the March 21-22nd event at Infineon. The left front corded during sundays race. I rotated and check the tires every other session. Before sundays race there were no signs of excessive wear. I was shocked to see them cord so fast. That set is now done.

 

I can't complain too much since we did ALOT of laps on that set.

 

The 1/2 worn set from the 25 I used again on Jan 2nd at Thunderhill, where they did about 60laps. Austin also borrowed them for the March event, where they saw another 25-30 laps. I ran them again this past weekend at the Redline Time Attack, where the gripped pretty well. They still have decent tread left and I plan on using them at the next NASA event.

 

So, are RA1's better? I'm not sure. Yes, initialy the RA1 was faster than the R888 because I hadn't figured out the correct tire pressure and suspension alignment to take full advantage of the R888. Still a set of shaved RA1's feel a bit better than the R888's. I am running the R888's are full tread (6/32") vs. my RA1's at (4/32")

 

I think the life span of an R888 is shorter than the RA1, but they may end up being faster. Only lots of testing will tell.

 

-Graham

 

I can't really compare my times to last year either, since last year we ran a B16A and so far this year we ran a Type R B18C.

 

 

Now this an intelligent outlook on the R888's. Open minded and able to see that you have to work at something new to make it work for you !!!

[Zook]

how is it an admission of any problem with the R888?

 

theyre just acknowledging there are new and used RA-1's out there that can still be used.

 

Just throwing it out there. The original plan to run the RA-1 for the first two races of the season so that we could use up any leftover ra1's. Maybe they underestimated the amount of ra1's still in circulation?

 

I"m probably looking way too much into it and just adding to the intenet soap opera

 

I'll be running R888's for the first time at this months event.

[loren fancy]

We've run the R888's for a few weekends now and still haven't got the handling down. We ran R888's in the 25hr of Thunderhill too. We used up one set, and a 2nd set was 1/2 worn. We probably would have used two more tires if we had run the full 25 hours.

 

The worn set from the 25 we ran again at the March 21-22nd event at Infineon. The left front corded during sundays race. I rotated and check the tires every other session. Before sundays race there were no signs of excessive wear. I was shocked to see them cord so fast. That set is now done.

 

I can't complain too much since we did ALOT of laps on that set.

 

The 1/2 worn set from the 25 I used again on Jan 2nd at Thunderhill, where they did about 60laps. Austin also borrowed them for the March event, where they saw another 25-30 laps. I ran them again this past weekend at the Redline Time Attack, where the gripped pretty well. They still have decent tread left and I plan on using them at the next NASA event.

 

So, are RA1's better? I'm not sure. Yes, initialy the RA1 was faster than the R888 because I hadn't figured out the correct tire pressure and suspension alignment to take full advantage of the R888. Still a set of shaved RA1's feel a bit better than the R888's. I am running the R888's are full tread (6/32") vs. my RA1's at (4/32")

 

I think the life span of an R888 is shorter than the RA1, but they may end up being faster. Only lots of testing will tell.

 

-Graham

 

I can't really compare my times to last year either, since last year we ran a B16A and so far this year we ran a Type R B18C.

 

 

Now this an intelligent outlook on the R888's. Open minded and able to see that you have to work at something new to make it work for you !!!

 

being open minded and working with the 888 is not the topic.....the posts are about a rule change and for what reason and for who? I've already dumped my Ra1's and bought the 888's and raced with them, why now are we letting in a tire for the year that is potentially better and not avilable on a normal basis.....thats the topic.

[DaveWright]

You know this change may benifit some of us that still have RA-1s left for the next event but I don't agree with the last minute changes. It really is a slap in the face for those that sold all of thier tires and transitioned to the new R888s. If this is the case then I agree with Mike with saying that we should be able to run any tire we want for this season or until NASA/TOYO figures out what we are going to use. Because those that don't have RA-1s are not able to find them anymore. That's my opinion. Now I really don't want to buy a new set of R888s like I planned on when I get home, just in case they change it again.

[Andrie]

It is important to only allow 1 tire for Nationals. No way they allow both tires.

 

I feel for people that sold their RA1. I know Brandon sold his RA1 for dirt cheap anticipating the R888 switch.

 

I just used up all my R888. Need to decide which tires to buy soon!

[slammed_93_hatch]

It is important to only allow 1 tire for Nationals. No way they allow both tires.

 

I feel for people that sold their RA1. I know Brandon sold his RA1 for dirt cheap anticipating the R888 switch.

 

I just used up all my R888. Need to decide which tires to buy soon!

 

 

At this point i don't really care...

 

I just want to know if they are going to stick to the 4-1-09 announcement, and allow Ra1 and R888. Or if an addendum, new announcement, ect is going to come out that is only going to allow the R888.

 

If both tires are allowed im going to run the Ra1, if only the R888 is going to be allow at nationals I am going to run that for the regional races.

 

I'd just like to know for certain, very soon.

[Tyson]

how is it an admission of any problem with the R888?

 

theyre just acknowledging there are new and used RA-1's out there that can still be used.

 

Just throwing it out there. The original plan to run the RA-1 for the first two races of the season so that we could use up any leftover ra1's. Maybe they underestimated the amount of ra1's still in circulation?

 

I"m probably looking way too much into it and just adding to the intenet soap opera

 

I'll be running R888's for the first time at this months event.

 

 

i think the more dramatic question is who wanted the extension more, Toyo to sell their leftover inventory, or NASA.

 

neither really matters of course...

 

 

 

ill ask again here: does "until the end of the 2009 season" even include nationals? is it automatically given? NASA should clarify that since ppl are making that the bigger deal.

[slammed_93_hatch]

Well i wrote Jerry a letter with my concerns and he emailed me back with this.

 

immy,

 

 

 

Here is some information. Feel free to post as you like:

 

 

 

I do know that everyone that submitted object hard data indicated that the R888 heat cycle out faster. This, coupled with the increase in per-tire cost will hit some budgets pretty hard. Furthermore, the performance has proven to be a coin flip, right down the middle. Some may argue one way or another, but any difference is completely negligible, which confirms the hard data from back to back testing, which we did ourselves last year.

 

 

 

Therefore, giving people a choice of which tire they want to run should be a good thing. Those that like the R888s (and there are some) can run them. Those that like the RA-1s and/or want to save money can use them.

 

 

 

There is no hidden motive, no hidden agenda, no backdoor deal with Toyo. We are simply responding to a need that we see, especially during harder economic times for some.

 

 

 

Since there is no proof that the RA-1 tire is any faster than the R888, then it doesn’t make sense to worry about those in CMC that want to run them. Heck, you might see bigger fields with this lower cost option.

 

 

 

We are, as always, trying to do the best in a no-win situation. Our decisions are not always perfect, but I can assure you they are always forthright and sincerely take into account what we feel will be the best for each series.

 

 

 

 

 

More…

 

 

 

 

 

We have been collecting data from events early in the season and evaluating some data from last season. We came to the conclusion that the R888s were, when dialed in, about the same in performance as the RA-1s. Yet they have a higher cost and heat cycle out sooner.

 

 

 

We approached Toyo with the data. There wasn’t much to say, except to ask about the viability of going back to RA-1s. This is not something that is good for Toyo, but they want our drivers to be happy. Since the RA-1 has been out of production since last Aug, most (if not all) of the molds are gone. However, there seems to be some decent amount of inventory left on the shelves.

 

 

 

Since we made a commitment to Toyo to use the R888; and because of limited supply of RA-1s in some sizes, we couldn’t just discontinue the R888. Plus Toyo really wants our drivers to give it a run for the money. Therefore, we felt that the very best thing to do is to allow both tires for now as we extend the transition period until the end of the year.

 

 

 

There is no way to tell what the future will hold at this point. We have agreed to meet with Toyo in a few months and see how things are going. We (Toyo and NASA) can then make a determination for the future (beyond 2009).

 

 

 

Feel free to post this message; but only in its entirety.

 

 

 

Jerry Kunzman

 

 

Knowing this makes it alittle easier to swallow, but still I am not happy about the situation.

 

I asked for clarification about the Ra1 being allowed at nationals, and will post his response when he gets back to me.

[ekim952522000]

ok so it's not spec R888 or RA-1 it's just spec Toyo...

 

The only thing I care about is that NASA tells us what tire is going to used at nationals for a fact. Because I imagine most people are going to want to run on whatever tire is required at nationals.

[loren fancy]

this say's nothing, but tells of not so compelling data for the 888 and a tire company that as a fact has gone backwards charging more for a new product that really isn't as good as the old,not my conclusion but most others. The fact is people dumped their stock of RA1's to follow the 2009 rules and now we find we invested or I invested 1400.00 in tires I really didn't need until mid year with the new 2009 rules. I know of a couple of other HC guys that run on a shoe string and that hurts them way more than me. I understand trying to help racers pocket book but this rule should of been in place before the 2009 racing season so all pocket books could of been helped.....I still smell fish!

[slammed_93_hatch]

Jimmy,

 

 

 

Both will be allowed at the nationals.

 

 

 

Thank you for the understanding.

 

 

 

Jerry

 

PS: It might help things if you posted my message on the boards. Feel free to do so.

[AustinG]

Yikes, go buy your RA-1's now people for nationals...

 

Not that I'll be there without a benefactor, unless I'm crewing for someone.

[badass55]

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried the R1R's. I have heard, from a rep, they are like the RA1's with a different tread pattern and depth. But I have no date to prove this info.

[philstireservice]

We've run the R888's for a few weekends now and still haven't got the handling down. We ran R888's in the 25hr of Thunderhill too. We used up one set, and a 2nd set was 1/2 worn. We probably would have used two more tires if we had run the full 25 hours.

 

The worn set from the 25 we ran again at the March 21-22nd event at Infineon. The left front corded during sundays race. I rotated and check the tires every other session. Before sundays race there were no signs of excessive wear. I was shocked to see them cord so fast. That set is now done.

 

I can't complain too much since we did ALOT of laps on that set.

 

The 1/2 worn set from the 25 I used again on Jan 2nd at Thunderhill, where they did about 60laps. Austin also borrowed them for the March event, where they saw another 25-30 laps. I ran them again this past weekend at the Redline Time Attack, where the gripped pretty well. They still have decent tread left and I plan on using them at the next NASA event.

 

So, are RA1's better? I'm not sure. Yes, initialy the RA1 was faster than the R888 because I hadn't figured out the correct tire pressure and suspension alignment to take full advantage of the R888. Still a set of shaved RA1's feel a bit better than the R888's. I am running the R888's are full tread (6/32") vs. my RA1's at (4/32")

 

I think the life span of an R888 is shorter than the RA1, but they may end up being faster. Only lots of testing will tell.

 

-Graham

 

I can't really compare my times to last year either, since last year we ran a B16A and so far this year we ran a Type R B18C.

 

 

Now this an intelligent outlook on the R888's. Open minded and able to see that you have to work at something new to make it work for you !!!

 

being open minded and working with the 888 is not the topic.....the posts are about a rule change and for what reason and for who? I've already dumped my Ra1's and bought the 888's and raced with them, why now are we letting in a tire for the year that is potentially better and not avilable on a normal basis.....thats the topic.

 

 

Well it is part of the topic...the reason the change was made was because of all the bitching that was done about the R888

[loren fancy]

well thats not even close to being a good reason for the rule change....the 888 is the tire and that should be that period...... as the original rule and as per no supply of the RA1 tire.....I still think it wrong to make mid season changes even if Toyo was supplying both.....I will continue to use the 888 but as a customer of both Toyo and NASA I think us racers should report how we see it.

[Karl]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

[Lo-bucK]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

X2 then i can buy al brands of used krap

[benny]

I give a lot of credit to NASA for making that decission and listening to their racers.

Kudos to NASA

 

Benny

[SFerg]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

 

 

HC would be a no-brainer for me if this ever happens. I really think this could help with the low turnout in the SE.

[kbrew8991]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

 

that makes sense for classes like HC & AI where the cars aren't really spec anyway...

[loren fancy]

in all the spec class's i.e. cost saving racing the hardest longest wearing tire should be used, like the RA1.....tires with shorter use should be rejected. The other benifit to a hard tire is the investment in expensive chassis conponents and modifications become non beneficial, further lowering costs. Many race promoters have written many articles on the benefits of hard tires to racers and race organizations....i.e. lower cost=more racers with close racing.

[ekim952522000]

How about spec falken?

 

[vansprinkle]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

 

There are not any HC racers in Texas now and a big part of it is the Toyo contingency. People would rather run in PT so they can get the Hoosier contingency that is miles ahead of Toyo's than run in HC. I think getting rid of the spec tire will help bring back HC here in TX and probably help numbers all over the country.

[H4CRXSi]

Here is a vote for no more spec tire in 2010.

 

There are not any HC racers in Texas now and a big part of it is the Toyo contingency. People would rather run in PT so they can get the Hoosier contingency that is miles ahead of Toyo's than run in HC. I think getting rid of the spec tire will help bring back HC here in TX and probably help numbers all over the country.

 

2 more votes, one for the Great Lakes Region HC and one for the Midwest Region HC, where all of the Hondas that used to compete in HC are now running in PT.

 

Regards,

 

Sam