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RA1 / R888


Chuck T.

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I attempted to get Toyo to work with us for a test session. Bryan S. put me in contact with them. Their response was, basically, NO WAY, NO HOW. That was last summer, after the Miller event, when we were all trying to get a handle on the 888.

 

We hear lots of conflicting information on how to make the tire work. Toyo won't put several guys out on a track with their engineers to do a proper tire test to give us all some real data. It seems they have for the Miata bunch.

 

Tim, what's wrong with Hoosier? The guys in the Pacific Northwest use them and have reported to us that they get good life out of them. We may need to talk to Hoosier about doing our own testing.

 

Again, having some tires at the Nationals to allow us to try out some tires in back to back runs would be helpful. Who wants to head up the effort to get two or three sets of any possible tires for us to test. If Hoosiers do come out looking good, we could then run the in an endurance test to see how long they last.

 

No matter what we do, we need to test the final suggested tire to be sure we are OK with it. We have learned alot about this with our current situation so we need to use that experience to see that we don't do that again.

 

Big Dog

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Oh, and Hoosier? That's a funny one!

 

the life I just got out of my R888s is comparable... I'm scratching my head as to why I'm on the slower tire honestly

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I attempted to get Toyo to work with us for a test session. Bryan S. put me in contact with them. Their response was, basically, NO WAY, NO HOW. That was last summer, after the Miller event, when we were all trying to get a handle on the 888.

 

Big Dog

 

Jim a few months makes a big difference. Toyo is looking at the R888 differently from last June. They understand the troops are stirring. Now working for a large company I will stay that moving fast is often quite hard. Still I am getting feedback that there is some activity in Toyo about the R888 concerns. I feel confident that over the course of the summer we will being to see additional evidence of that. Lets face it NASA National's rulling on going to allow RA-1's for the season despite being disruptive to our class was in direct response to the R888 concerns expressed by many NASA racers in various classes.

 

So this issue is front and center. I am very much inclined to see how the summer goes as except for Arizona most racers have been inactive until now. We Arizona racers will have chance to sit back and see how this plays out and then come the fall understand better what course of action needs to be for 2010. I really feel that 2-3 months from now the current situation will change such that any ideas of what we may need to do for 2010 may be invalidated by more information.

 

 

So my advice for 2009. Deal with both tires. Don't get all ruffled up as I don't believe the RA-1 is "faster" than the R888 once you optimize the R888. The RA-1 may last longer and be just as fast, but I don't believe is clearly faster. In the end Nationals comes down to 1 race. Over the course of one race I don't believe the RA-1 vs R888 issues will determine the race winner. The race winner will be the guy who makes best use of the whatever tire he/she runs.

 

For 2010.. 944 sped needs to get more life than we have been currently getting from the R888. 12-14 heat cycles among the fast guys is just not enough. I we can push to to 20 heat cycles through set-up changes then that might be the answer we need. Sadly given the stake of DOT races tires right now I would be hard to get more than 20 heat cycles from ANY tire (other than the RA-1 of course). The RA-1 was an amazing tire ideal for spec classes becuase it was so good in terms of balancing speed and life. It is a very tough act to follow.

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The discussion seems very interesting on these two tires, but only if NASA would allow the 944 Spec racers to switch from the Toyo's. Toyo's sponsorship of NASA overall would certainly be a factor. The Spec Miata tire is exactly the same as the R6, but at a much lower price. Hoosier has been supportive of NASA racing with their contingency program, tire supply has not been a problem and track side support(thanks Phil) has been great. So what do you think?

 

Sorry for the mixed up chart. I am asking for help on how to fix this. I tried to upload it as an Excel file and a Word file, but was rejected.

 

Bill

 

Toyo R888 Hoosier

Tire Size 225/50-15 P205/50ZR-15 SM6

SPEC MIATA

Product Code 160680 46500

Overall Diameter 23.7 22.8

Tread Width 8.7 8.0

Section Width 9.1 8.7

Recommended Rim Size 6.0 - 8.0 5.5 - 7.5

Measured Rim Size ? 6.5

Weight 22 18.9

Price $167 (Shaving $15) $164

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if the RA1 does not come back in stock in the 225/50/15 size I think we should look at the 205/50 ... it would slow us down (maybe) but think of the price power with SE30 , SM and 944-spec all on the same tire

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Chuck,

 

Dollars to doughnuts you will be faster on the 205s. Flatter footprint, less weight, smaller diameter, and less positive camber effect on loading (on a 7" rim).

 

Guys,

 

Maybe you missed it so here I go again...

 

The Nitto NT01 is an RA1 with a different tread pattern and you can buy it off the shelf for less than the RA1 (assuming you could still buy the RA1.)

 

 

Tire contingency money really doesn't work for anyone but the guys at the front, and everyone pays higher tire costs to pay for the contingencies.

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Chuck,

 

Tire contingency money really doesn't work for anyone but the guys at the front, and everyone pays higher tire costs to pay for the contingencies.

 

Most regions share the TOYO money is some way ...

 

And Yep I was thinking of you Karl when I wrote that

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Chuck,

 

Thinking of me how?

 

As the guy at the back paying for all of your tires, or the guy collecting all the bucks?

 

p.s. Say hi to Mark Franklin the next time you see him. He was just here with his new car.

 

p.p.s. What the story on tires for the PPIR, Pueblo, I25 event in July? Want to do the informal tire test there? I'll be happy to show up on the 205 / 50 R15 NT01s if I can get the car done. I'll even run them at full tread if you give me the okay.

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Guys,

Let's keep several things in mind.

First, both NASA and TOYO TIRES are very aware that there's a problem. I believe they are working to solve it, with both their best short and long term solutions.

Second, I really believe that they are both listening to us drivers, and not just us 944 Spec drivers.

Third, while NASA does a great job of listening to our input regarding our set of rules, it's NASA National who has the final say in tire choice for our class.

I don't believe any Hoosier tire, fast as they are, is the right fit for our class, if they are driven hard.

Let's see what TOYO comes out with for a solution over the summer. It wouldn't hurt at all though, to have some testing data from different tires in the bag and ready to go.

 

BTW, have you guys heard that Hoosier and Yokohama are teaming up for a new joint effort to bring to market the best DOT racing tire to date? Yep, it's going to be called the Hoosier-mama!

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Karl for July you can run what ever you want. !

I will even swap tires and wheels and we can do back to back 2 or 3 different cars to see if it goes faster or slower... Pueblo we have down pat, with solid lap times PPIR is shorter but would also make a great test track. 205 vs 225. how about a set of 205 TOYO's

 

I would think we would lose some grip under braking ... Not be able to out brake SM.

 

Mark Franklin is BAD FAST ! He never places less than second in the RMR.

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