newbie questions

[shadow24v]

Ive been looking at the NASA HPDE events but I have some questions.

 

I tried to get an idea of the cost but the NASA event listing says all registration is closed and doesn't list a cost for the events (this is for the midwest area, mostly Ohio and surrounding area like Mid-Ohio etc). As I'm just graduating college, money isn't that abundant, so i was hoping to know what the cost was before joining.

 

Also,I have some questions about the car I have to use for the HPDE. Its a 92 Sundance Duster with a newer 24v v6, 5speed running a Megasquirt-II. its got some rust, and the Megasquirt wiring isn't the greatest (relay board with screw-down terminals in the right side of the engine bay). As far as i can tell it SHOULD pass tech, but i wanted to get some opinions. Its got some newer fenders and a hood now, but basically the same. Is there anything i should look at beyond the normal tech checkboxes?

 

[ddg]

Ive been looking at the NASA HPDE events but I have some questions.

 

I tried to get an idea of the cost but the NASA event listing says all registration is closed and doesn't list a cost for the events (this is for the midwest area, mostly Ohio and surrounding area like Mid-Ohio etc). As I'm just graduating college, money isn't that abundant, so i was hoping to know what the cost was before joining.

 

Also,I have some questions about the car I have to use for the HPDE. Its a 92 Sundance Duster with a newer 24v v6, 5speed running a Megasquirt-II. its got some rust, and the Megasquirt wiring isn't the greatest (relay board with screw-down terminals in the right side of the engine bay). As far as i can tell it SHOULD pass tech, but i wanted to get some opinions. Its got some newer fenders and a hood now, but basically the same. Is there anything i should look at beyond the normal tech checkboxes?

 

 

There's allot you haven't mentioned: what's the condition of the rest of the car???

You need to take the condition of your car VERY seriously if you’re going to drive it on the track!

 

Here's a list of things I'd check or replace if I had your car;

Front:

Suspension bushings, is there play in the suspension?

Ball joints

Strut mounts

Struts?

Tie rod ends?

CV boots: leaking? Tears?

CV's: are they clicking when you go around a corner?

 

Rear: you car has a "beam axle" right??

 

Axle bushings

Rear bearings: take off the drums, inspect and repack

Shocks?

 

Tires???

How old/worn are they? are the rims straight or bent?

Brakes? How old are the pads? you should have fresh fluid if you're doing a track day

Rear shoes??? You’re gonna have to pull the rear drums!

 

Engine and trans:

Loose wiring: you have to fix it before going out!

Oil leaks from the engine or trans?

How old is the trans oil? engine oil?

Coolant leaks?

How old is the coolant?

Do you have a catch tank for the radiator?

Is the battery bolted/strapped down tight with metal brackets?

 

Interior:

Are the seatbelts and seats in good condition?

 

As a NASA HPDE tech inspector, I wouldn't pass your car just on the wiring alone.

You have to consider a worn out part causing you to break down on the track.

I could be an annoyance for other drivers or very dangerous if something major failed! I'm not trying to scare you away, I'm just trying to emphasize the importance of very thorough maintenance, your car will experience extremes never seen on the street!

[shadow24v]

 

There's allot you haven't mentioned: what's the condition of the rest of the car???

You need to take the condition of your car VERY seriously if you’re going to drive it on the track!

 

As a NASA HPDE tech inspector, I wouldn't pass your car just on the wiring alone.

You have to consider a worn out part causing you to break down on the track.

I could be an annoyance for other drivers or very dangerous if something major failed! I'm not trying to scare you away, I'm just trying to emphasize the importance of very thorough maintenance, your car will experience extremes never seen on the street!

 

 

this is the sort of answer i was looking for, thanks. I appreciate the straightforward approach to the tech part. I'd rather be told now I have tech issues than fronting the money for an HPDE and finding out i have irreparable issues at the track. I want to make sure I'm not going to have any problems or create problems for others. Ill try and take it one part at a time.

 

 

Front:

Suspension bushings, is there play in the suspension? - no, poly A-arm and sway bar bushings

Ball joints - replaced within the last 6 months

Strut mounts - new as of last summer

Struts? - new as of last summer (KYBs all around)

Tie rod ends? - tight, no play in the steering (its fairly responsive too)

CV boots: leaking? Tears? - not that i can tell, but its worth another look

CV's: are they clicking when you go around a corner? - luckly no, despide having been ragged on

 

Rear: you car has a "beam axle" right?? - yes. i was planning on making sure the old rubber bushings were replaced before tracking the car. there is a possibility of a rear sway bar and adjustable panard bar being added at some point

Axle bushings - not sure which part you mean on this...unless you mean front wheel bearings, 1 has been replaced within 6 months, other is of unknown age

Rear bearings: take off the drums, inspect and repack - bearings are snug and well greased but worth another check

Shocks? - KYBs new this past summer

 

Tires??? - cooper all seasons, fronts show some wear (burnouts, normal FWD heavy use)

How old/worn are they? are the rims straight or bent? - age? 4 years i believe, maybe a bit older. car was down for 2.5 years to do the engine swap. rims are straight as far as i know

Brakes? How old are the pads? you should have fresh fluid if you're doing a track day - pads are also a few years old but the fronts are ceramic pads with id say 80-90% pad life left. im planning a brake upgrade anyways: rear discs and better front brakes. Probably remanufacured callipers all around and new brake lines too. old ones are probably original...

Rear shoes??? You’re gonna have to pull the rear drums! - worth a look for sure if i go for an HPDE before the brake upgrade

 

Engine and trans:

Loose wiring: you have to fix it before going out! - I figured as much. I was thinking putting the relay board in a weatherproof box and using weather-pak connectors to create a sort of OEM looking wiring. any other pointers on this? how much do you scrutinize the engine bay?

Oil leaks from the engine or trans? - possible rear main seal leak or trans imput seal, don't know which yet, i can replace this when i switch transmissions soon (rebuilt with LSD going in)

How old is the trans oil? engine oil? trains oil is less than 500 miles, engine oil (AMSOIL 0w20) less than 1500

Coolant leaks? - none

How old is the coolant? - completely replaced last summer

Do you have a catch tank for the radiator? - does a gatoraide bottle count? im guessing not...

Is the battery bolted/strapped down tight with metal brackets? - it has a weak clamp thing on the bottom edge, so a strap or some other restraint is in order. im guessing i should look at summit or similar for a tie down?

 

Interior:

Are the seatbelts and seats in good condition? - for its age i'd say so, seatbelts work well

[Dynamite924s]

shadow24v, nice to see your interest in NASA. Sounds like you are very aware of any issues with the car and the importance of the tech inspection. I have a car that is 20+ years old so my first time out with NASA (Mid Atlantic) I took the tech inspection form to my trusted mechanic and paid for him to do a complete inspection. Like you said, the last thing that I wanted to do was show up to the track and be turned away for something that I could have easily taken care of beforehand. After that I've been tech'ing the car myself dedicating an entire day or more to pre-track maintenance. Safety for myself, my passenger and everyone else at the track, and avoiding bone head moves like dropping fluids, breaking down or running out of gas on the track -- things to keep in mind while preparing the car.

 

For your first time I do suggest finding a shop familiar with what is involved with track inspections; check your regional NASA site to see if they make any recommendations on tech inspection shops, call some local shops, maybe those dedicated to performance upgrades/installs and ask if they do pre-track inspections, and make sure you bring your inspection form and helmet as that is also part of the inspection. If you don’t already have one, a torque wrench (with an 6 point socket) is a good investment as your instructor will probably ask you to check the torque on the lug nuts again before going onto the track each day, though usually someone is willing to let you borrow one at the track.

 

Rough cost:

Track fees = $300

Food, Gas and Lodging = $250

Getting your fix = priceless

[shadow24v]

I'd hope I'd know if there were any issues with the car, I did the motor swap, ECU install and nearly all of the mechanical work on this car myself. Its a one-of-a-kind car so it was quite the learning experience.

 

I believe there is a shop here in Columbus that is listed as a NASA tech site. I'll see if I can take it to them and see what they think. Thanks for the heads up on the helmet and torque wrench. I have the wrench already and a Snell 2005 helmet. If I read the CCR correctly, the helmet is more than adequate.

 

As for the wiring though, it looks a bit like a rats nest at the moment, but if I were to clean it up and make it look better (connectors and weatherproof box for the relay board) would that be more likely to pass tech? I can get a current wiring pic if needed.

 

Cost wise, thats about the same as what I heard from a NASA driver on saturday at Mid Ohio. (g/f worked there last summer and got us in to watch for 2 hours or so. she also lives not 2 miles away from Mid Ohio ) Unfortunately Ii won't be able to make it to an HPDE for a while . Still an intern making squat and graduating soon, so I'm trying to find a job in the current economy...

[STRINGER]

here is a thought....work some events and earn credits for free HPDE's. Not sure how many you have to work the get one HPDE...but its worth it. You will be there, meeting new people and seeing how things work. Lots of people work for credits towards HPDE's

[kbrew8991]

flagging at a corner makes you a better driver

[nasaregistrar]

flagging at a corner makes you a better driver

well it does sort of because you get to see repeated examples of what *not* to do at a certain corner.

[shadow24v]

Ok, i haven't been on in a while, but im getting ready to work on my car this winter so it is in good mechanical shape for next season. Specifically the wiring. Here is how it looks now

 

What sort of things should i be looking at doing to ensure my engine bay passes Tech? Do i have to hide as much or all of the wiring in wiring loom? Is there any thing that stands out as needing attending to?

 

Im not too concerned about the rest of the car. body and suspension are in great mechanical order, 2.5 years running on the swap, with about 22,000 miles on the car and no mechanical failures.

[Weed Wacker]

With your wiring just make sure it is routed intelligently, mounted securely and a general attempt at neatness. Otherwise make sure you have everything tied down and give the engine bay a nice cleaning. The cleaning thing is more for you so you are sure everything has no issue with water. Plus the extra scrutiny will ensure you did not accidentally miss something.

[shadow24v]

Ok, ill see what i can do about neatening up the wiring. As for water, most of all the connections are OEM sensor connections and the other ends are in a sealed water proof box (passenger fender well).

 

Also, what should i do about a battery tie-down? all i have is a one bolt wedge thingy at the base holding the battery in. would a ratchet strap around the battery and battery tray work?

[Weed Wacker]

Thats actually exactly what my buddy did for his first hpde. The wedge to hold it in place and the ratchet strap for added security. After that event he relocated it to the back and its in a battery box. It did not seem to be an issue though.

 

One thing to make sure you have outside of that stuff is good brake fluid. There are not many things that can kill your confidence in your car than rushing into a corner and realizing you have no brakes. From earlier in the thread looks like you have the right idea. Try to (if you have not already done so) get some higher boiling point fluid (Motul RBF600, ATE Super Blue, Castrol SRF etc.) and some braided lines for starters. Some people may not agree but most cars not designed with track stuff in mind will cook brakes in a heart-beat. Plus it will lay the foundation for having a track oriented set-up for when you get faster and NEED the extra temp range.

[shadow24v]

thanks that helps. I'm only running a DOT3/4 fluid ATM, but ill look into a DOT 5.1 or race fluid and flush/replace before the HPDE. gotta save for the braided lines but that can easily be done. Also, i had to replace one caliper already (original one tho lol) and got a metal piston caliper. I don't trust the phenolic pistons to hard use like track use... I'll have to replace the others with a metal piston calipers before the HPDE too i guess

[whoahstu]

Make sure the brake fluid you are trying to upgrade to is compatible with your brake system. I was under the impression that 3/4 doesn't mix with 5. You'll find plenty of great 3/4 fluids out there. TireRack sells ATE Super Blue pretty cheap, and they can ship it with the UHP summer tires you may be needing for HPDE.

 

Good luck. I went to my first HPDE weekend in July, and it looks as though I'll have 8-10 track days done by the end of this season. Addiction.

[shadow24v]

yeah, regular DOT 5 is silicone and incompatible with 3/4, but they have a new 5.1 which is not silicone, has higher wet and dry boiling points and 3/4 compatible

http://au.geocities.com/ozbrick850/brake-fluidtypes.html

 

any pointers on tires? is it worth finding used R compound tires or is it better to stick with a UHP street tire?

[Weed Wacker]

I think r-comps are a waste in hpde. Your not competing, your out to have fun and to learn to push your car and yourself to the limit in a legal environment. When your at that stage, super sticky tires will make your car faster, but wont necessarily make you faster. They can hide a lot more screw ups or bad habits that street tires will show. With street tires making your mistakes more apparent, they will be easier to notice and fix. Which will put you that much further ahead in the long run compared to jumping right into them. Thats not even considering the fact that they cost more and dont last as long...

 

Its always better to learn to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.

[whoahstu]

any pointers on tires? is it worth finding used R compound tires or is it better to stick with a UHP street tire?

 

I've got 7 track days on my Bridgestone RE01R tires. They're a UHP dry summer tire, and I have no problem cutting through the HPDE1/2 field with these on my Miata. I agree with Weed that UHP tires are a great to start with, and they'll last a LONG time. Mine barely show any wear. If you find them lasting too long (I think I will get ~20 days with mine), you can always use them as a nice street tire.

[shadow24v]

sounds good. I'll just get a set of good UHP tires come spring time and use those

 

anything else i should consider or look at?

[soundguydave]

Definitely clean up the wiring to the best of your ability; for neatness' sake, and to provide a bit of extra chafe-resistance, you can wrap the bundled wires together with electrical tape for a factory-look to them. Personally, I would extend the harness that crosses the radiator, and secure it just forward to that it's not subject to the heat. Also, and this is critical, you will NEED to cover the positive terminal of the battery to pass tech!

 

Other than that, the UHP summer tires, fresh brake fluid, and a good set of fresh "track" pads (Hawk HT-10 or the like) and new OE rotors are all I would do to the car until you have a few events under your belt.