FC/944 series?

[RockLobster]

Sorry if this has been covered but searching "RX-7" does not work.

 

Has there ever been any discussion of expanding the 944 spec series to include their equally matched 80's competitor, the 2nd gen RX-7 (non-turbo)?

 

They were always so well matched back when they were new in mags, and on the street....might be a really cool way to expand such a great affordable series. Plus they are still plentiful cars.

 

What a great rivalry in the spirit of CMC racing etc....

 

Hope this does not ruffle feathers, just throwing it out there for theoretical discussion....

[Chuck T.]

GREAT IDEA !

I was trying to put in place a "spec small bore" race here in the rocky mountain region . We were looking at racing Spec 7, Spec Miata and 944-spec agianst each other as a field of over 100 cars ! . This was going to take place at a SCCA event last year but we could never work it out...

 

This last weekend SM did not have a good car count so they started in front of the 944-spec's and we had to work our way through them...

 

That said it's hard to make different cars equal on track. Then it seems you have one group who has something /advantage the other group does not. Then you lobby to change rules then someone else is not happy ... etc etc etc . That's why we work so hard to keep the 944-spec rules tight. Low cost equal racing.

 

I like the idea but making it happen is tough.

[mcmmotorsports]

 

I like the idea but making it happen is tough.

 

x2

[schwank]

There is a class called Pro7 in the Conference rules. They run in the same run group. In my experience they are not quite equal to a decently prepped 944. Maybe you guys have different experiences. Keep in mind that though I am 'Cup', other than a 944 Max chip I am spec legal with yellow Konis and 888's.

 

And that was with a 157K mile motor and open diff trans at a 5" SCCA ride height.

[944-Spec#94]

The idea is good, but in practice it can be hard to accomplish.

 

The fact is that a spec series is based on the idea of the fewest deviations from a certain specified formula of both car and parts. Now for various reasons some devations are allowed to create a level playing field. However all these have a compromise.

 

Right now I don't see how both cars could run together at the same level of competitiveness and cost they do now. Surely some "balancing" would be required to either make one car faster or the other slower. This is not the worst thing in the world, but is it going to be worth it for all drivers involved. Plus it can be very very hard to determine what the right balance is especially when you things like different aero, different chassis balance, and different power curves. Adding weight is easy, but weight alone cannot perfectly balance the cars as its impact on acceleration and different from it impact on cornering. The best thing might be to have an "informal" challenge where both cars are in different classes, but run a the same time in a mixed group. This way the cars can "race" each other, but not be forced to race in the same class. Then as the drivers of cars get to know each other and their driving styles the issue of what would need to be adjusted to properly balance the cars could undertaken. It might become clear that despite both cars running a similar lap time that one always has an edge in racing conditions or that the prep or skill level of one group is better than the other clouding the real determination of speed.

[RockLobster]

I figured it would take an effort like that. That makes a ton of sense to have them on the track informally together to start to develop the rules for the new car even over a period of years. I would also expect that even after a season or two of "developing" what would be the specs for the "new" chassis in the series i would still expect the RX-7 owners to be the ones subject to rule changes for balance, being they are the new guys in a developed series.

 

It would of course be frustrating as a 944 driver to have the new car come in and have an advantage but i dont think the rx-7 owners would really mind giving up something for a year or two to fine tune a balance between the cars (if that is possible like you say). When it comes right down to it they are probably initially closer than CMC cars are, closer than the different honda challenge models, etc... and building a non-turbo 2nd gen race car is quite cheap relative to most other cars, just look at all the ones that have been entered into the $200x challenge with V8 swaps no less!

 

If i were to build a car the midwest/great lakes seems like a good place to gather some data...

 

Is the pro7 spec not mostly 1st gen RX-7s? I know very little about Pro7 but it seems like it is only 1st gen cars.

[GaryM05]

The idea of putting the 944 on track against its native competition is a good one, but not in a spec class, IMO. Many of us joined this class specifically because we wanted to avoid the ‘hot car for year X’s rules’ syndrome, and adding a non-944 model goes against that. No feathers ruffled – just my .02.

 

In my opinion, a slightly more realistic option might be to see if one of the various vintage racing groups would consider creating an ‘80’s Sportscar Challenge’ class, or something like that. Many of those groups were established in the 80’s to race the cars from the 50’s and 60’s, and it’s now almost 30 years later and would make sense (if those groups are interested in growing) to start including some cars from the 80’s that competed in the marketplace and on the street (RX-7, 944, Z-car, early Supra, etc) when many of today’s racers were growing up (just as those who got into racing in the 80’s were growing up in the 50’s.) If the ruleset were a little tighter than SCCA’s ITS class (where many of these cars currently race against each other), I’ll bet that an affordable, equal class could be built.

[RockLobster]

I guess you cant really call it a spec series if its more than one make/model. It's technically a challenge series then?

 

I to like the idea of a tight set of rules that are present in a spec series vs the more open rules of a challenge series. So i kinda liked the idea of a hybrid series where only 2-3 particular cars (namely the 944 and the FC as we have been discussing). Where you basically have two spec rules combined...

 

I see the quandary here. People don't want to muddle the nice tight rules of a spec series by trying to balance two completely different cars. It seems like create a system of racing series where you have the different spec classes of which 2-4 are combined for an overall challenge serries might be interesting.... A sort of tier system...etc without going into the traditional general classes...i dont know this is probably more babel. LOL

[Tim Comeau]

Strangely enough, I've thought about this idea many times over the years. I still have video of me and an RX-7 that I believe was running in the super 7 class ? at Buttonwillow. It was one of my toughest races ever, and I ended up second after some lead changes. Our cars were very equally matched. The Mazda was being driven by Madeline Crowe. I was so impressed by her driving that I asked her to share a 3 hour enduro race with me later.

That being said, I would find it extremely difficult to now give up our one make, one model racing series. We try hard to dial out every variable but the driver's ability and his/her ability to set the car up.

[Sterling Doc]

This already happens in endurance racing. NASA's E2 class ends up being a "small bore" sports car class. Look at NASA's endurance racing classification. This would be fun as secondary "race within a race" i.e. recognize the fastest small bore/E2 car. It gets very messy adding a whole 'nother make inside of the 944 Spec class, though.

[mcmmotorsports]

Not to mention, it wouldn't be called 944-SPEC's no mores.

[Cheap_Thrills]

Maybe we could get some of that Mazda zoom-zoom money though.

[mcmmotorsports]

Maybe we could get some of that Mazda zoom-zoom money though.

 

I tried putting a sticker on my 944 but it didn't work.