AIECCS - #3 Sebring- awesome schedule..take a look

[robbodleimages]

Jeff,

 

My engine is still getting reworked after the headgasket issue and I had to miss Camp Steeda.

 

I had planned on using that event to get some practice laps in for the June race. This means I will be pretty lost out there myself. If I am not DAL, I will be content.

 

There is a chance that our Bondurant Cobra will be ready for that weekend, if so, I may bring that and let Tom Ellis drive it and pass on racing myself. If its not ready to race, I will bring the R and race myself. There is not a chance in the world that big Tom would fit in my R.

[Red Tornado]

Been nearly 20 years since I have run there so gotta watch some video to refresh

So Robin practicing up.....

 

It's Ok in an hour race I can learn the track and pass him no problem.

[[email protected]]

Update on Sebring schedule. Our goal this year is to build our Racing Division. The racers have all said they want more track time. So, for the event this past weekend at Homestead Miami Speedway, we did do the 120 minutes of track access (not actual race time, but including pace lap and cool down lap ) for the racers. Well, Saturday was great, but Sunday (with the two races) was not. There was enough attrition, and it was hot enough that only 50% of the racers made the grid for the final race on Sunday. Also, some actually said that if there was only one race on Sunday afternoon they would have participated, but since they already got one race in, they skipped the finale.

 

Our feedback from the racers showed that although they liked the extra track time, during the summer months it is just too hot for two fairly long races. So, at Sebring (new schedule should be up on the web site by tomorrow) we are going to have about the same total time (110 total minutes plus 5 minute clean up), but on Saturday AND Sunday there will be a Practice, Qualifying, and Race, rather than one Qualifying and two actual Races.

 

Also, we ran into a problem with cars not having the capability to run a longer race without having to refuel. So, we will have a 45 minute RACE on Saturday and Sunday. So, you can plan your strategy accordingly.

 

Steve Nix

NASA Florida

 

I must be dreaming or hungover.

 

Florida site and just registered and it said it also has following schedule.

 

120 minutes of racer time a day

 

Saturday

30 minute practice

25 minute qualifying

65 minute RACE!!!!

 

Sunday

doesnt provide breakout but qualifying and two races.

We will do format that was used at road america of first race on sunday gets starting position for 2nd race on sunday that counts towards points.

 

Guys this is awesome. Come on down without a doubt for 4 hours of weekend racing on the 12 hour track.

[jslindst]

Steve,

 

We originally discussed these issues with Larry over a year ago when we convinced him to switch to the one qualifying session, 2 approx 30 min races per day. Other clubs already run this schedule in the hotter months(May-Oct) and run the practice, qualifying, 1 hr race on Sat; one qualifying session, 2 approx 30 min races on Sun in the cooler months. The racers originally voted for more "race" time, not necessarily track time. If the racers at the last event voted to change this then I understand you adjusting the schedule. If I simply want track time I can just do DEs or Time Trials, the reason I race with any club is to get time "racing", not qualifying, or practicing. In fact I rarely run the fully alloted time for qualifying at any track, preferring to save my expendibles for racing. But that's just me. Like I said above, if the racers as a group decided to there was a need to change the schedule then I am cool with your decision. I think the idea to adjust the schedule to get the racers more time to encourage more participation is a good one(that is already in use with other clubs) but unfortunately in this economy the amount of disposable income not track time is the deciding factor in racer participation. Yes, the economy has killed my racing budget this year.

[Red Tornado]

I totally understand the change and agree with it. The 60 minute races we do down south are killer and 45 minutes is still about 20 laps or so

[[email protected]]

Hi Jeff -

 

So much depends on how a schedule is worded. Most quote "track time allotment" instead of actual "race time". We are trying to do both, so that you can figure out your needs for fuel as closely as possible.

 

We all know that everyone thinks a little differently, as we hear different suggestions and complaints from the drivers. Mostly, however, everyone wants more track time. We really are trying to accommodate the majority of racers. At Homestead Miami Speedway last month, we took 10 additional minutes from HPDE and gave it to the Racers, and along with some creative scheduling (thank you Barbara) we came up with the most time allotted to Racers since we started, two full hours!

 

We previously thought that two shorter race sessions would give a driver in a hotly contested class a 2nd chance to do better in the later race on Sunday. The problem we ran into on Sunday at Homestead at the end of May, was that attrition and heat conspired to make the last race of the day very sparse. It doesn't look good for our club to have so few racers in the last race of the day.

 

With the longer race on Saturday, we had problems with fuel capacity and driver concentration. So, in order to improve both days, we have decided to try keeping the one longer race, just not quite as long as last month.

 

We have still kept the same amount of track time (and remember, the 65 minutes for the Saturday race was track time not race time, as it included warm-up and cool down laps, and 5 minutes for clean up). So with the longer Sebring track taking even more time for the warm up and cool down laps we are allowing 55 minutes to do a 45 minute race, plus a 30 minute practice, and 25 minute qualifying session, and we have 10 minutes on the schedule for any clean up that might be required. So, the full two hours of track time are still devoted to the Racers, we just don't have the two separate races on Sunday.

 

We will continue to fine tune as we go along, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

I hope you all have a great weekend with us at Sebring!

 

Steve Nix

 

 

 

Steve,

 

We originally discussed these issues with Larry over a year ago when we convinced him to switch to the one qualifying session, 2 approx 30 min races per day. Other clubs already run this schedule in the hotter months(May-Oct) and run the practice, qualifying, 1 hr race on Sat; one qualifying session, 2 approx 30 min races on Sun in the cooler months. The racers originally voted for more "race" time, not necessarily track time. If the racers at the last event voted to change this then I understand you adjusting the schedule. If I simply want track time I can just do DEs or Time Trials, the reason I race with any club is to get time "racing", not qualifying, or practicing. In fact I rarely run the fully alloted time for qualifying at any track, preferring to save my expendibles for racing. But that's just me. Like I said above, if the racers as a group decided to there was a need to change the schedule then I am cool with your decision. I think the idea to adjust the schedule to get the racers more time to encourage more participation is a good one(that is already in use with other clubs) but unfortunately in this economy the amount of disposable income not track time is the deciding factor in racer participation. Yes, the economy has killed my racing budget this year.

[jslindst]

Steve,

 

I appreciate your response but I'm not sure you understood my point, which was that I prefer not to have a three sessions per day consisting of a separate practice, qualifying, and race session. I would rather have the practice session turned into another race. I thought the schedule we were using previously of 25 min for practice/qualifyiing, then 40-45 min of time(30-35 min of actual race time) for the first Sprint Race, & 45-50 min of time(35-40 min of actual race time) for the second Sprint race per day which was used at the April Homestead event was working fine. When you look at the results from April there was just the usual attrition as the weekend progressed(http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=405852" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). You guys changed the schedule & had dramatically different results. My response is, why not change it back to the way it was before, which appeared to be working. Like I said in my previous post the economy has dramatically limited my racing for 2009 & unfortunately I will probably only be running 2-4 events this year, so I would not expect any series to adjust their schedule to my liking, but it sure looks like the old schedule was working as it had since its inception. A schedule that only includes 2 races total per weekend will not be an enticement for me to do any future events with NASA after this coming one at Sebring regardless of my current or future financial situation. As much as I enjoy the people and appreciate the work that the volunteers for this club and the other clubs I run with do, when I am able to come to the track to race, I come there to race and to get the most time possible racing safely. Everything else is a bonus. Sorry, I'm not at a race weekend to get more practice time. If I'm at the track to instruct for a DE, which I did earlier this year for another club, then I'm there to have a safe weekend teaching a student, have some fun lapping the track in my car, & BS with other drivers in between track sessions.

[panozracing]

I agree with Jeff. I too am only racing 2-4 events this year as opposed to a normal 6-10 events. I too really liked that NASAFL did 3 races per weekend. I barely go out for practice and qualifying. Once I get my head screwed on straight for the weekend (4-5 laps in the first session) I am good to go. When qualifying I know the lap time I need to hit and then stop. Its all about the racing.

 

We have plenty of practice on our home tracks.

 

my 2cents

 

see you guys next weekend (hopefully).

[[email protected]]

OK, we have two votes for going back to the 3-race weekend, One Longer race combined with a Practice and Qualifying on Saturday, and Two Shorter races combined with a qualifying session on Sunday!

 

Speak up now, we need to hear from you.

 

Keep in mind the problem we had the end of May at HMS. The attrition the day of the Two Races was 50%. We want to avoid that. Also, we CAN make changes depending on the season. For instance, at the end of May, and in June and September, we can go to the Two Races per weekend, and the rest of the year, have the Three Races a weekend?

 

Once again, we're glad to hear from anyone, we will try to accommodate the majority.

 

Steve Nix

NASA Florida

 

I agree with Jeff. I too am only racing 2-4 events this year as opposed to a normal 6-10 events. I too really liked that NASAFL did 3 races per weekend. I barely go out for practice and qualifying. Once I get my head screwed on straight for the weekend (4-5 laps in the first session) I am good to go. When qualifying I know the lap time I need to hit and then stop. Its all about the racing.

 

We have plenty of practice on our home tracks.

 

my 2cents

 

see you guys next weekend (hopefully).

[robbodleimages]

Steve,

 

I don't see any reason why you can't use both schedules. Choosing the one that makes the most sense for a given event. NASA SE is trying the 3 race format for the first time this weekend at Road Atlanta in part because many liked what they saw in the 3 race format that you have in FLA.

 

I think its also true that the attrition you saw at Homestead could have resulted from that race session being a qualifying session as well.

 

If I were voting for just one format, I would vote for the 3 races.

[jslindst]

Thanks Steve. I actually prefer the 4 races per weekend schedule we ran last year, but your proposal of the 3 races is better than 2. Thanks for hearing my concerns.

[jslindst]

If I were voting for just one format, I would vote for the 3 races.

 

Rob,

 

Does that mean you are coming down to race with us?

[robbodleimages]

I am on the fence about June, to be honest. My wife scheduled a girls weekend with her friends for that week in June and told me to go racing and vacate the house. Then she rescheduled that for the end of July and now wants me to stay home.

 

I would have to reschedule for October if she persuades me to stay.

 

I am certainly planning on racing at Sebring when it fits the schedule here.

[panozracing]

If I have to pick one format I would vote 1 long race sat and 2 sprints sunday!

[Balroks]

If I have to pick one format I would vote 1 long race sat and 2 sprints sunday!

 

I agree. The euduro allows us to build more skill as a driver and as the owner/engineer. It's always been Nasa's calling to give the most "oppertunity" for drivers to better themselves. Having the mini-enduro on Saturday and 2 on sunday is building upon that.

 

Or, even better, we could have the two "sprint" races on Saturday's, this will give those who don't live down the street time to learn the track for the "big one" on Sunday. And at the same time, give you participation on both days I might even offer more points for the Sunday race if you keep it near the 60 min mark. This way it offers racers the option to strategize about exactly what they need to do to win the series. Mix things up a bit

[[email protected]]

OK, unless we hear from a lot more racers we have made a decision.

 

But first, a little more background not discussed previously. When we had the two races each day, we had a LOT of racers say that they did not want to have to qualify on Saturday (day one) without some sort of practice to make sure their car was performing as it should. That is why we went from 4 races a weekend to 3. They said no practice on Sunday (after a full day on the track) was fine, so we stayed with the two races on Sunday.

 

I thought that worked well, until last event where only10 racers showed up for the 2nd race on Sunday.

 

So, we will keep the Practice, Qualifying, and One Race on Saturday, but we will go back to the Qualifying, and Two Races on Sunday as soon as the weather cools down a bit (How does at Sebring in October sound?).

 

September is up in the air right now. With the National Championships the same weekend, greatly increased costs at PBIR, and the requirements to not enter the track until 8 am and get off the track by 4 pm (which really messes up our schedule) we will have to talk in more detail with PBIR after our Sebring event (which is taking 1st priority right now) to see if anything can be worked out.

 

So that would leave 7 months (October - April) where we plan on running Two Races on Sunday. Don't forget, in the summer months, even though it is only one race per day, it is still 2 hours of time dedicated to racers each day, with a minimum of 55 minutes devoted to the races.

 

We hope you all have a great time at Sebring.

 

Steve Nix

NASA Florida

[brucebyerly]

All of these decisions happen with ninja like quickness! I'm with Jeff overall. The 3 race format is certainly better than two, however. I thought the 4 race setup was brilliant! I also heard the complaints, but you have to consider the source!

 

Frankly, I have yet to see any class in the FL region where our qualifying times would have made any difference whatsoever. If you break, you break. If you fix it, you're going to be OK even if you start at the back. 4 races is the way to go in my book. The idea of a 60 min race scared me. It's too long, too hot, and I'm driving a Mustang. AND, I don't think it really responded to the desires of racers. And I don't remember the discussion in the drivers meeting coming to any kind of conclusion, either.

 

Looking forward to Sebring, whatever the schedule!

[[email protected]]

Hi Bruce -

 

The race length on the longer races is up to 45 minutes, with a 55 minute allotment of time including the warm up and cool down laps.

 

During your Race Driver meetings, your Race Director, Larry Mahanor will entertain suggestions from drivers. Like I mentioned before, we are trying to fine tune this based on driver response and suggestions. The first step was a longer allotment of time for the racers. We have accomplished this.

 

Steve Nix

NASA Florida

 

All of these decisions happen with ninja like quickness! I'm with Jeff overall. The 3 race format is certainly better than two, however. I thought the 4 race setup was brilliant! I also heard the complaints, but you have to consider the source!

 

Frankly, I have yet to see any class in the FL region where our qualifying times would have made any difference whatsoever. If you break, you break. If you fix it, you're going to be OK even if you start at the back. 4 races is the way to go in my book. The idea of a 60 min race scared me. It's too long, too hot, and I'm driving a Mustang. AND, I don't think it really responded to the desires of racers. And I don't remember the discussion in the drivers meeting coming to any kind of conclusion, either.

 

Looking forward to Sebring, whatever the schedule!

[Gators2001]

Im a Rookie, so which of the three formats is better I'm yet to know. And I have to say Larry did hold a forum on the subject. Everyone Wanted more track time, but who doesnt.

 

My car is more of a sprint car. If Saturdays race wasnt in the rain; I would have ran out of gas for sure. So I do need to find out if Im going to have to get a fuel cell to be able to run the longer races.

 

As far as the attrition, I didnt run the last race b/c it didnt rain as forecasted and didnt have much of a dry tire left. I know one other was in the same boat as me.

 

I do feel that sending out a survey via emails to those that registrar regularly may get a better overall response from the race group.

 

BUT I do want to send out a BIG thanks for everyone's hard work. Its a blast running in FL!

[brucebyerly]

Hi Bruce -

 

The race length on the longer races is up to 45 minutes, with a 55 minute allotment of time including the warm up and cool down laps.

 

During your Race Driver meetings, your Race Director, Larry Mahanor will entertain suggestions from drivers. Like I mentioned before, we are trying to fine tune this based on driver response and suggestions. The first step was a longer allotment of time for the racers. We have accomplished this.

 

Steve Nix

NASA Florida

 

Thanks Steve. You can't please every one all the time but it's good to try to perfect the format. Everyone wants the success of the organization. We need to encourage more participation all around.

 

My vote is for more racing is two sprint races per day vs. a big long race. That's my vote. More track time might be satisfied by allowing racers to go out in HPDE4 to make sure the pads are bedded or whatever. The HPDE4 guys can deal with it and it's wouldn't hurt for them to see a race car on track anyway.

 

Also, we need those cute little "NASA winner" stickers to decorate the cars with

 

Bruce

[Red Tornado]

The sunday approach makes sense also.

[jslindst]

It was a very hot weekend, one of the hottest in my 20+ years of going to Sebring. The heat, track, & pace took their toll on all of us to some extent. We had 5 AI cars & 1 AIX car at the start of the weekend. Robin broke his panhard bar mount twice during the weekend & was not able to finish the race on Saturday or even start the race on Sunday. He even had issues with the brakes on his tow vehicle. It just wasn't his weekend, still not sure how he managed to stay in a relatively good mood throughout his ordeals. Chris had a massive fuel leak from the filler neck gasket at the side of the fuel cell in the first session Saturday, missed qualifying repairing it as well as chasing down a creaking noise in his front suspension/steering. He also battled overheating issues in Sunday's race & had to back off the pace in the race. Pat had an electrical issue on the grid for Sunday's race & could not finish. Bruce had a misfire in his first session on Saturday due to a bad coil pack but was able to get fixed easily, I think his only other issue was a slightly malfunctioning cool suit. My car was running extremely rich all weekend and subsequently down on power, chased it to the MAF, got it to run better by the last race Sunday, but didn't get that totally resolved. I also battled some high engine temps during both races necessitating some short shifting. I think Jim's AIX car was giving him some handling woes during the weekend & he spun at least once.

 

Here are the first 4 laps from the start of Saturday's Race:

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Robin started on pole for the class & diced it up with Pat for a couple laps before his panhard bar mount on the axle side broke. Robin's only consolation was that he did have fast lap of the race in AI. Bruce got a great start & was soon upfront battling for the lead with Pat, which he eventually took when Pat had a part fall out of his dash & get under his brake pedal in turn 4. I got a terrible start since my view of the Starter was obscured by the rear wing of the GTS5 944 that was in front of me & I spent the whole race riding around with no one to race. Jim started mid pack & ran there most of the race. Chris had to start DFL because he didn't get a time in qualifying, was stuck in traffic for part of the race, & like me spent most of the race lapping by himself.

 

Here are the first 4 laps from Sunday’s Race:

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Sunday we were fortunate to have a split start with the AI/AIX cars up front. Robin would have started on pole but broke his panhard bar axle mount for the second time in as many days & wasn’t able to start the race. That gave pole to Chris but he was passed by Bruce in turn one. Pat’s car died as he accelerated thru the gears at the start. He got it going again & was able to limp it back to the pits but could only complete one more lap. Jim spun at the exit of turn 16 on the first lap & only completed 2 laps in the race. Not sure what caused the spin. Chris & I stayed close to Bruce for a couple laps before we both started to have overheating issues. I was fortunate not to have to slow as much as Chris & he eventually had to point me by. Bruce built up a big lead & was able to soft pedal it to another victory and sweep the weekend.

 

All in all it was a decent weekend despite the heat & the lousy schedule. Four Half-hour Sprint races, like we had been doing for the last year, would have been a lot easier on everyone's equipment. It would have been even worse had Chris & Robin not come down. It was great to run with these guys. Also, special thanks to Jim Pantis who brought a truckload(literally) of NASA-SE racers and DE’ers. Great group of guys. Look forward to running with them in the future on their home turf.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Guest

[robbodleimages]

sorry that I missed it, but too many things conspired against it. Sounds like it was an interesting event.

[Ed M.]

Great write-up! Looking forward to meeting you guys at Rd Atl in August. Should be a good turnout and a fun time.

 

Ed

[Jim P.]

It is definitely a fun track to run on - it will test your best suspension setup to it's limits!! I had mine set too hard for the weekend and was fighting oversteer especially on right-handers, I'll be working on that and will definitely be ready for August at Road Atlanta.

 

I had to quit sunday because my exhaust fell off again and I didn't have any spare nuts to put it back together again - I guess lock washers with lock nuts isn't going to be enough, Sebring is definitely a test of all that can be rattled loose off of your car!

 

The FL Drivers were awesome hosts, they know how to have fun in the hot FL sun! This past weekend definitely tested all of our cooling systems both for drivetrains and drivers! My CoolShirt lasts most of the day at a SE event but only 55mins at a FL event! I would HIGHLY recommend that anyone wanting to fully test their car and hang out with a great group go to this event!

 

Beware of their favorite eatery - it has a 14ft live Gator and the steaks are awesome - but covered with copious amounts of garlic... I loved it, but not everyone can handle the garlic! My daughter Caitlin thought the Gator was stuffed but when he moved she jumped about 10ft!

 

I hope someone posts the video/pictures of us using the freightliner as an anchor and another F350 to pull the back wheels off of Robin's truck!!! It was hilarious to watch and I am sure that someone expected a "Hey Y'all watch this" moment to occur - luckily it only took three good tugs to get it off!

 

All in all the trip was worth it - they are a great group and lots of fun!