Aaron B Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Rob, at $1,000 plus per set for my 275/40/17 on my AI Mustang is paying a little more an option...our tires seem to cost plenty.....or am I mistaken and this is a REALLY GOOD deal on race tires and most other Race Tires are much more expensive for our cars?-... I haven't priced anything but the spec tires I've used in CMC and AI over the years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I run both enduros on BFGs and sprints on Toyos. Right now to get some consistant feedback and a consistant package to race I am just running some old BFGs in the enduros and then running AIX in the sprints. I ran by best laps ever at Road Atlanta this past weekend on a set of BFGs that ran one three hour race in November 07 and August 08, 90 minute race May 08 and several sprint races in that time. I am not sure how much faster I would be if they were new or newer. My R888's were half a second faster un August 08 and I was a full second faster than those laps last weekend with the BFG's. I am saying that my older BFGs are doing fine by me. They are about $40 a tire more than R888's. I am in an unusual position where I am at a disadvantage running the spec tire in an enduro race and so should run to brands of tires on a given weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 If you are proposing we run a more expensive tire that doesn't have a rain tread tire option..... No bueno! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am not proposing anything. Are you a fan of the R888 in the rain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am not proposing anything. Are you a fan of the R888 in the rain? I will NEVER mount an R888 on my car again as long as I own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Promise?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ok...so you are saying you are not in favor of running hoosier or bfg's or other tires in the DOT marketplace and you won't run R888's. Are you retiring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ok...so you are saying you are not in favor of running hoosier or bfg's or other tires in the DOT marketplace and you won't run R888's. Are you retiring? Nope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 changing classes? Selling the car for a different one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 changing classes? Selling the car for a different one? Shhhhhhhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I will NEVER mount an R888 on my car again as long as I own it. How far off the RA1 pace were you? Are you wearing them out or heat cycling them out? Just asking because those are pretty strong words. I'll race on Firestone Wide Ovals as long as everyone is on the same tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I will NEVER mount an R888 on my car again as long as I own it. How far off the RA1 pace were you? Are you wearing them out or heat cycling them out? Just asking because those are pretty strong words. I'll race on Firestone Wide Ovals as long as everyone is on the same tire. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I will NEVER mount an R888 on my car again as long as I own it. How far off the RA1 pace were you? Are you wearing them out or heat cycling them out? Just asking because those are pretty strong words. I'll race on Firestone Wide Ovals as long as everyone is on the same tire. Yes. Metal masturbation. Please stop engauging Matt with civil conversation. He hates the tire and has some double secret plan that no one really cares about. (besides most of us already know) Let it go. Move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Nape, I'll answer for Matt, with my own experience. I bought a set of full depth 888's and ran 5 1/2 hours during an enduro with them. Felt fine at enduro pace. However, the unloaded front tire (LH in my case since TWS is CCW), corded the inside edge due to dragging across the pavement in left turns. I hadn't seen this wear last year with very used RA1's after the 4 hour enduro. The next day I replaced the corded tire and ran the sprints. We had two AI cars on RA1's and two on R888. The RA1 crowd ran away at 2-3 seconds per lap on a 1:54 second track. The two of us on R888's were playing "Tokoyo Drift" by the end of the race just to keep the car under us and be in "chase mode". I'm not a fan of the 8's at all after my 7+ hours of run time during that weekend. This is coming from someone who never had a "fresh" set of tires as I was always running cast off RA1's from no tread down to the cords. Just my .02. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Did you make any changes to your setup or did you just bolt the R888s on in place of the RA1s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thanks for the reply, Marshall. Nape,I'll answer for Matt, with my own experience. I bought a set of full depth 888's and ran 5 1/2 hours during an enduro with them. Felt fine at enduro pace. However, the unloaded front tire (LH in my case since TWS is CCW), corded the inside edge due to dragging across the pavement in left turns. I hadn't seen this wear last year with very used RA1's after the 4 hour enduro. Any chance the RA1s were so hard they didn't wear anymore? I got rid of a set earlier this year that we ran 6 weekends on last year after buying them well used. They were so hard they wore like iron, but they weren't very fast. I'm just wondering if that's the biggest issue with your tire wear. Scuffs usually wear longer. The next day I replaced the corded tire and ran the sprints. We had two AI cars on RA1's and two on R888. The RA1 crowd ran away at 2-3 seconds per lap on a 1:54 second track. The two of us on R888's were playing "Tokoyo Drift" by the end of the race just to keep the car under us and be in "chase mode". I had the opposite on them to be honest. I was playing Tokyo Drift on Saturday on last year's RA1s and I bolted the R888s on for Sunday after cutting an RA1 and I was actually a tick faster then Saturday and it was easier to drive. The track was pretty green for Saturday after some rain in the morning, but it was dry as a bone for the race. I ran qualifying both days on the R888s and the times were just about identical. This is coming from someone who never had a "fresh" set of tires as I was always running cast off RA1's from no tread down to the cords. Thanks for the info. I wish we could make these work, not having to shave them really works out sweet for low-buck guys, in my opinion (not having to have dedicated rains). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 TJ, I don't know your car setup but a "soft" setup can work with the R888's... Some of us just can't soften the suspension that much or the car will be slammed into the pavement with Aero unless we raise ride heights. To do that, I need new shocks to control the weight transfer and additional travel. So spending $4k or more for new springs and shocks is NOT going to happen. I see street cars that our students run with R888's and they are fantastic for a DE tire on a softly sprung car that has a lot of body roll. Hell, they aren't bad on the first 2 laps on our cars...they just go away too much. Considering I was running 70 degrees hotter from an RA1 to R888 and I was probably in the 250 degree temp range....CRAZY!!! When we did my testing with DAQ, I could hit consistant laps on the RA1's within .12 covering a string of 7 or 8 laps. R888's would start out about .7 slower than the RA1....then taper off to nearly 2.8 seconds slower after lap 5. I also had to have 30 degrees more steering input in long sweeping turns. As for the price on the tires not having to shave them....I recently bought 8 RA1's, shaved, for around 202 a tire if I remember correctly. R888's were running 220 each as molded. I had a buyer for my set of 888's but with the recent announcement on the Miatas Getting RA1's next year, the 888's are all but about worthless. Maybe I can sell them at the next HPDE I instruct at for $400...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 TJ, I don't know your car setup but a "soft" setup can work with the R888's... Some of us just can't soften the suspension that much or the car will be slammed into the pavement with Aero unless we raise ride heights. To do that, I need new shocks to control the weight transfer and additional travel. So spending $4k or more for new springs and shocks is NOT going to happen. I guess it could be, but I never thought of my setup as that soft. Sounds like your shocks cost quite a bit more then the ones I run though. As for the price on the tires not having to shave them....I recently bought 8 RA1's, shaved, for around 202 a tire if I remember correctly. R888's were running 220 each as molded. I had a buyer for my set of 888's but with the recent announcement on the Miatas Getting RA1's next year, the 888's are all but about worthless. Maybe I can sell them at the next HPDE I instruct at for $400...? Who are you buying your tires from? The guys up here are getting $208 + $20 shave for a 275/40/17 RA1 and I bought my 275/40/17 R888s for $210 each earlier this season. PS- How much for the R888s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Did you make any changes to your setup or did you just bolt the R888s on in place of the RA1s?Matt,I took some camber out of the front end (about a degree less static). I also softened the front bar some. Couldn't do anything on the rear since I don't run a bar. Springs didn't change, as I didn't want to go any softer. I'm running 450lb front and 350 lb rears right now and have to raise the static ride height for TWS anyway due to the speeds at the end of the front straight and the transition from the banking in T1. If I went softer, that would be more difficult to deal with shock wise. The tires felt fine, they just don't like being abused. You have to respect them for them to work to their max. With regards to the old tires I had on the car during the '08 enduro, they were several years old, so maybe they were just hard and wore like iron due to that. However, I have run RA1 scuffs in the past that have 2 weekends on them when I pick them up and then put another 4 weekends on them before they cord and significantly fall off pace. For reference, the 888's were scuffed during a January test session (2 20 minute sessions) and then covered up until the April race, so they were not true "sticker" tires at the start of the '09 enduro. As many have said, the ability to just go to the track with $1000 worth of springs and sway bars and another couple sets of tires to figure this out is really the achilles heel of the whole R888 tuning thing. The RA1's had soooo much track data that was readily available, people didn't have to go through all this R&D to run the tires to their optimal performance level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I guess it could be, but I never thought of my setup as that soft. Sounds like your shocks cost quite a bit more then the ones I run though. I run Koni DA's on the front and MM bilsteins on the rear...the next step up would Motons or Penske's.... AST looks like they are getting into the market...but don't have an SN95 setup....yet. I talked to a Tein Rep and he was an idiot. I suppose someday I will have to pony up and buy a real set of shocks....but I think I will build an F-body before then and get rid of my Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The tires felt fine, they just don't like being abused. You have to respect them for them to work to their max. As many have said, the ability to just go to the track with $1000 worth of springs and sway bars and another couple sets of tires to figure this out is really the achilles heel of the whole R888 tuning thing. The RA1's had soooo much track data that was readily available, people didn't have to go through all this R&D to run the tires to their optimal performance level. Maybe this is why I have had good results with the R888's in dry conditions. I am not comfortable drifting and sliding my car around the race track. I have read the Toyo page on the R888's and they are straight forward about not slipping and sliding on this model tire. As to the R & D required to get these tires to work best, its part of racing isn't it? I am a low budget, non-mechanic driver. Its harder for me than for anyone, but its part of the fun. I have a set up and a driving style that makes these tires work for me and the idea of getting a setup advantage on drivers that have more seat time than I do and more budget than I have is appealing. Talk to people. Google search. Try some things. Make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I think I will build an F-body before then and get rid of my Mustang. Aren't all those Chevy motors pushrod engines? Will that make you a GM Pansie or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I run Koni DA's on the front and MM bilsteins on the rear...the next step up would Motons or Penske's.... AST looks like they are getting into the market...but don't have an SN95 setup....yet. I talked to a Tein Rep and he was an idiot. Don't forget Ohlins. I suppose someday I will have to pony up and buy a real set of shocks....but I think I will build an F-body before then and get rid of my Mustang. Well, six of one, half a dozen of the other. Mustangs have a junk suspension and F-bodies have a junk drive line and it costs about the same to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Maybe this is why I have had good results with the R888's in dry conditions. I am not comfortable drifting and sliding my car around the race track. I have read the Toyo page on the R888's and they are straight forward about not slipping and sliding on this model tire. Bob, please don't take this the wrong way, but if you aren't sliding the car and aggressively working the car, you aren't near your optimum laptimes. Heavy, soft setup, non-aero cars seem to be OK on the 888's up to a point... however, the fastest guys in our region with developed cars can't seem to make them work for more than 1/2 an out lap.... TJ....the F-body would be a 4th gen LS1 car for CMC2...not AI. As for the driveline, don't we try to make our Mustangs into Camaros anyway?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Maybe this is why I have had good results with the R888's in dry conditions. I am not comfortable drifting and sliding my car around the race track. I have read the Toyo page on the R888's and they are straight forward about not slipping and sliding on this model tire. Bob, please don't take this the wrong way, but if you aren't sliding the car and aggressively working the car, you aren't near your optimum laptimes. I don't take it the wrong way. I never claimed to be championship contender or a race winner. I am learning and improving as I get laps. What I am saying is that my experience so far is that I am faster on 888's than Ra1's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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