PSUCRX Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Good point about the DA 'teg. You are right, I did overlook that option. The idea was to point out that there are a ton of things that will need to researched. Actually, the only member of the rules committee that has addressed this thread is me. I can see how it appears that I am being negative. My intention is to point out the problems with the proposed class. To my knowledge, only two actual (consistant) H1 competitors have responded on this thread. I can tell you they are not 'cocky & loaded with money'. In fact, they are both really good guys who will help you out at the drop of a hat. Most of the people who have responded are H4 racers or potential H4 guys. I would say that we are hearing from people that are passionate about HC. This is good. It could be coming thru as harsh. It might be intended that way, I don't know. The truth is that there are good points that have been made for the class. However, IMO, we should be growing the current classes first. I agree 100%. I'm just always up for exploring new options. For example, here in AZ, our classes are small, w/ 2 H1 guys, and currently 4 H4 cars. I know there are more in the works but don't have details on them. Now let's turn our attention to the 'accidental' racer. Someone who comes out to the track w/ their LMS swapped civic or crx, and they find they really like it, so unlike other drivers who have been doing this a long time possibly in other classes and build or buy cars already prepped for a specific class, they have what they started with. Now I know how I am, and I'm sure you all can imagine the excitement when someone starting out finds out that he/she can race their car in a competitive environment, so they work hard at it, only to find that in order to be competitive, they either a) have to spend MORE money to set themselves up to even be comptetitive or b) pull everything out they already did and start over... Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrie Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 How bout letting them run as exhibition run with us? No points and doesn't count on race result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clock Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'd like to interject a quick point about the rules for any series. There are two keys making a succesful series; it must be accessible and it must be sustainable. The rules writers for HC were faced with trying to make an accessible series for honda cars, which they succeded in with their classification of the wide range of production hondas, and with their "hybrid"class. The first time I read the rules, and discovered that there was no precedent for "bumping" classes, I thought that it was restrictive. However in hindsight, I see the wisdom in this move. Racers are competitive, and they will eventually begin to take every advantage they can. Soon a rule to allow engine swapped cars in the non-hybrid classes will become the rule, and not the exception. Once the optimum chassis/engine combo for a particular class is found, everyone will be running that. Now what you have is 5 hybrid classes, where actual production hondas are obsolete, which is obviously more expensive and obstructive to further growth. I think HC has been succesful as the rules are, and we have reach a size were it is not nessacary to further change rules to pull in competitors. Our task now is create an enduring ruleset. It's my opinion that the H2-H5 classes are for the cars as they were purchase, and meant for accesability, H1 is for people who want to spend money to go fast. Upset this balance, and I think we will see less participation, not more. We need to think about HC 10 years from now, not just next year. I like Andrie's idea. Run for no points and have fun while you decided where it is you want to compete, then build your car to that. Andrie, you did pretty good against the K20s in your blue car didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrie Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Chris, thanks for putting it so eloquently, you convinced me. I never won the fight against K20 car. But did gave it a good fight. I have no doubt if my car was build maximizing the rule it will be much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slammed_93_hatch Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 How bout letting them run as exhibition run with us? No points and doesn't count on race result? thats the problem, thawely is the only guy pushing for this that actually races, and he has an LS/VTEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slammed_93_hatch Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Chris, thanks for putting it so eloquently, you convinced me. I never won the fight against K20 car. But did gave it a good fight. I have no doubt if my car was build maximizing the rule it will be much faster. Look at how strong higashi's motor was at the last race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thawley Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 thawely is the only guy pushing for this that actually races, and he has an LS/VTEC. I'll have that VTEC head off of there as soon as I can get to it. It's a great head, but that bottom end is just not built for the RPM required to maximize the head's flow. Sure I could build one, but that's the whole point of this. I don't want to HAVE to just to run H1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrie Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 John, I've seen a few people that has been successful building LS VTEC. One come to mind is Tom Liang when he showed how fast he can be at fontana beginning of the year. I checked the time on mylaps for last Thunderhill event. I hate to say this, so I better off steal Rick Hohwart quote: "And how do you know that you will even be competitive even with the "right" equipment?" You're time is so off the mark driving un questionably a faster car than any of the H4 car out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thawley Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 You're right! And with all that race craft still to learn, how much time do you think i want to spead building and/or dealing with a competitive H1 motor? Answer: NONE. No question, I've got a lot to learn. Just hoping that I'd not have quite so much more to SPEND... A stock B18a with pump gas is all want or need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianZ Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 A stock B18a with pump gas is all want or need. Then buy a 90-93 Integra..and you can run H4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrie Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 A stock B18a with pump gas is all want or need. Then buy a 90-93 Integra..and you can run H4 Which I will have the shell in a month or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slammed_93_hatch Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 A stock B18a with pump gas is all want or need. you can still end up spending a BUNCH of money on this motor. a full rebuild isn't cheap, and at some point will become nessacary. It's not a bad thing its just thats racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITAIntegraLS Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 (edited) A stock B18a with pump gas is all want or need. Then buy a 90-93 Integra..and you can run H4 I say Run the same Engine weight package and brakes the engine came out of. Plus maybe a 50-100 LBS penalty for running a Hybrid LMS. In a h2-h5 class. Edited December 1, 2004 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thawley Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Leaving town for Thunderhill this morning. Sorry I won't be able to quickly respond to any witty jabs about my thinking or racing talents, but please feel free to keep the banter going. I'm developing a good thick skin about the LMS concept. As the logic against it declines and the arguments get more personal and insulting, I can see that this is becoming a lot more about saber rattling than legitimate opposition. Good ideas don't go away. And neither will I. Except the go racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeski38 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Try not to take it personally John, Just disregard the personal attacks. Responding to them just brings down your position. I think the arguments are declining in character since this topic has been beet into the ground. I think it would be a good idea to stop discussion on it and wait for the rules commitee to decide. There has not been a unique argument raised regarding LMS in the last week anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan F. Posted December 3, 2004 Members Share Posted December 3, 2004 Good idea. The decision makes know about it and have seen the discussions. We always consider anything that will make the series better. Consider the idea submitted and the topic locked. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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