kbrew8991 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 at what point do we all just shut up and drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirewarmer Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 at what point do we all just shut up and drive? Right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Na. that's not fun. I'm purposing we not make the rule book any thicker we just change the 5 point assessment to read "turbo" instead of "forced Induction". Actually it makes the rule book shorter... HEHE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 TTD: Miata (might be, might not..) Pretty sure Patrick's car is supercharged. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't chimed in since he can be a little vocal on here! Incidentally - I think the weight/power ratios also help with the FI issue. Yes some of the turbo cars can get huge gains that are probably worth more than +5. But by the time those gains are compared to weight/power they might move up several classes. Unfortunately I don't know enough about supercharged cars to know if they should only take +3 or something. I guess my question would be - what OEM supercharged cars are out there that you are going to see on track? The Cobalt? Is it really that many we need to re-review the entire rules or should they just do the motor swap reclassification if it comes up? - Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 cobalt, mini, some of the mustangs, new audi s4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Or you could always move up to a 07+ mini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Pretty sure Patrick's car is supercharged. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't chimed in since he can be a little vocal on here! we need a few more black helicopters circling before it'll pop up on the BatCave radar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 So what did this post accomplish? I sent a letter to Greg asking him to think about an immediate change. Anyone else care to back that up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted June 17, 2009 National Staff Share Posted June 17, 2009 Ok, before I answer (apparently at my own peril lately), here is my disclaimer: I am not looking for a debate or to argue with anyone. I do not plan on coming back to this thread to continue a debate. Any suggested rule changes, as usual, can be submitted by e-mail for consideration in the 2010 Rules (which is what we will do with Ian's e-mail at this point). The short answer is, "no". We will not be changing this line item now. A few of the posts above have hit the mark (like PhoenixR34--Brady's-- regarding how in the real world, NA cars are not only dominating in general, but have lately really started to break records in all regions, and his comment about how the O.P's car specifically (Mini) is doing very well in PTD and PTC in AZ , Boomn29's and Mark's--regarding how the turbo cars are the ones that primarily get hit by the new Adjusted Wt/Hp ratio limits for each class (one of the reasons we began them), Ken's--regarding how if you think that you are getting too many points for not enough power, you can always submit an e-mail for possible Dyno re-classing, as well as his posts regarding shutting up and driving, black helicopters, and batcaves ) While some of the later model turbo cars can seem to get good power gains with a reflash, others cannot without also having, intake/exhaust/boost controllers/wastegate actuators/fuel injectors/aftermarket intercoolers/etc. This is no different than a supercharged car that needs to take the +4 points for S/C pulley. It doesn't take much research on the Internet to find out that there are kits out there for the Mini that will boost fwhp by 35-40% for less points than all of the turbo items I listed above would cost. We have Mini's out there that have submitted for Dyno re-classing, but so far, they all seem to be content with the power gains the are getting under the points system. They are very quick now at their home track, PIR in Arizona--broke a longstanding TTC/PTC record as Brady noted. They will be going to Miller this year, so we will see what they can do on a bigger track. I believe that most of the cars that can get big gains from just a reflash and some higher octane fuel are in the higher classes already. However, it never hurts for our drivers to inform us when there are cars like this out there, that may need to be up-classed based on easily gained potential, rather than actual OEM power: Very good point. A 335i can increase its power output by over 100hp with just a "flash" of the ECU. Is this really true? Just re-flash and race gas gets you 100hp more? This car will definitely be getting looked at closely for 2010. Oh, and someone posted about a golf tee in a boosted car. That would be assessed points under one of these, depending on where it was at: 15) Aftermarket boost controller or modification/alteration of OEM vacuum lines that serve to function as a boost controller +4 16) Aftermarket or modified wastegate actuator, wastegate, or vacuum line(s) that serve to control the wastegate actuator function or increase peak boost +3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Pretty sure Patrick's car is supercharged. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't chimed in since he can be a little vocal on here! we need a few more black helicopters circling before it'll pop up on the BatCave radar LMAO Or... I could just be on vacation and enough of a nerd to be checking nasaforums from the beach. I actually thought this thread was taken care of when Ken told the OP to go ask Greg for a classification so hadn't checked it in a while. Anyways... my car is supercharged, but those are handled the same way as engine swaps and it had to be re-classed by dyno hp and weight. I don't take the +5. ECU points are already accounted for in my dyno and base class. That is an option for anyone else, too... but it may be good or bad, depending on your situation. FWIW my opinion on a 335i pushing 100+ hp out of just a chip - OK, so what? It should be fairly obvious that the car is performing way out of class. I have a feeling that 100+ hp would bump the 335i up into the next class (or two!). If the competitor didn't own up to it, another TT'er or the dyno would. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yea the 335i is a monster, they are rated 300hp from the factory and are putting down 290+whp on a dynojet. Very underated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted June 18, 2009 Members Share Posted June 18, 2009 Yea the 335i is a monster, they are rated 300hp from the factory and are putting down 290+whp on a dynojet. Very underated! Ive driven one. Great power, needs alot of suspension and brake. Very heavy. Did I mention it has great power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have heard the same re: 335i reflash, somewhere north of 400whp thanks for the response Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Rode in the right seat of a 135i this past weekend at RdAtl. Slightly tuned. Claimed 360hp. Easy 140mph by turn 9. On street tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Or... I could just be on vacation and enough of a nerd to be checking nasaforums from the beach. What is more ugly: a) The thought of another balljoint thread b) The thought of Patrick at the beach Thanks for the response Greg, makes sense to me. - Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I just barfed twice.... thanks Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ken - I'm mailing the autographed pics of me in the Speedo to you, as requested. And I finally figured out how to add jackass to an ignore list so you don't have to worry about me piling on to another ball joint thread. Unless you want me to... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Letostak Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Very good point. A 335i can increase its power output by over 100hp with just a "flash" of the ECU. Is this really true? Just re-flash and race gas gets you 100hp more? This car will definitely be getting looked at closely for 2010. Same story with the new Mitsu Evo X - the tune from the factory is so crappy a good reflash will net 80+whp on pump gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Same story with the new Mitsu Evo X - the tune from the factory is so crappy a good reflash will net 80+whp on pump gas. Thats why they were giving a star in addition to the Evo IX TTB/PTB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted June 20, 2009 National Staff Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yes, we were aware of the Evo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Rode in the right seat of a 135i this past weekend at RdAtl. Slightly tuned. Claimed 360hp. Easy 140mph by turn 9. On street tires. That is fast to be in the cheap seat on street tires.... And yes you can tell a car may be misclassed - but it is hard to prove....cars that are misclassed due to points still lead to many "spirited" discussions (e.g., my Moton remote reservoir shocks are less then $600 each) - much less "hidden mods" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr PS Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I witness a 335 reflash that allows the driver to do it just by turning key to acc-on position and using the gas pedal. Depending on the combination of number of gas pedal clicks, one can "scroll" through a list of maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meat Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 That's pretty cool. I can switch maps with my cruise control stalk but using the gas pedal seems pretty convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gators2001 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Same story with the new Mitsu Evo X - the tune from the factory is so crappy a good reflash will net 80+whp on pump gas. It takes more then just a reflash to get the EVO X at 80+ more HP. The car is smacked w/ a star compared to the previous model and the FI hit. The car is Forced into A unless you want to run on stock suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Same story with the new Mitsu Evo X - the tune from the factory is so crappy a good reflash will net 80+whp on pump gas. It takes more then just a reflash to get the EVO X at 80+ more HP. The car is smacked w/ a star compared to the previous model and the FI hit. The car is Forced into A unless you want to run on stock suspension. Not if you go to you know who Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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