The History of NASA Question

[warchant]

I am trying to understand why there are two organizations, one being the SCCA and the other obviously NASA.

1. How/why did NASA come into existence? I know it started in 1991 but it is quite vague or a quite P.C. as to why. Is there a scab that I am picking at here?

 

2. What was the reasoning for a different series when they essentially provide the same functions? I might be missing something here.

 

3. How many members are actually dual members? SCCA & NASA

 

a. Of these dual members which club do they prefer?

 

Thank you in advance,

[ZipZap]

Excellent first post warchant! I think I can help.

 

1) It's really a philosophical argument you ask about; Which came first, racing in a relaxed and fun atmosphere, or NASA? Oldtimers might wax poetically of all the fun they had racing back when they were running steam. The purists, however, argue that NASA begat fun and see this as infallible.

 

2) SCCA has a Hyperfest? You're right. You are missing something here.

 

3) 42

 

4) 20 prefer NASA. 20 prefer SCCA. 1 is undecided. The 42nd racer is me. I like pie

[warchant]

Sorry Guy/Gals,

 

I need to know:

1. Why was NASA created? What was the reason? Is this some sort of IRL/Champ Car stuff?

He said/She said

 

2. I am not starting a fued between the SCCA and NASA, I just need to know!

 

3. As it stands now I am leaning towards NASA. The group seems to be more professional & waaaay more in tune with today's motorsports than the SCCA.

 

And the Hyperfest looks cool as "H.E."double sticks" Keeping it clean.

 

If someone would rather email as to the creation rather than post, Great! I would like to know!

 

 

Bottom line I need to know " what is better NASA or SCCA"?

 

I have had my fill of silly and/or politically correct answers.

 

warchant

 

 

I am not trying to stir stuff up, just trying to get an honest answer.

[kbrew8991]

NASA tends to be more customer oriented is the biggest reason I like them

[getfast]

I have had my fill of silly and/or politically correct answers.

 

I am not trying to stir stuff up, just trying to get an honest answer.

 

I would suggest asking one of NASA's founders directly... Jerry Kunzman, 510-232-6272 or [email protected]

[RSCoupe]

Bottom line I need to know " what is better NASA or SCCA"?

 

I have had my fill of silly and/or politically correct answers.

 

Interesting question to ask on a NASA forum.

 

Did you honestly think someone would say the SCCA is better?

[warchant]

Okay sorry guys/gals,

I am just a little PO'ed by the scca. It just seems as though they are just concerned about the "workers" and not the "driver". For being a non-profit organization things have got a little weird lately, or just maybe it has been this way all along.

I willl leave this short and take some input. I know(or pick up a vibe) I am not he only the only one that feels this way.

 

I just need reassurance that I am not the only one.

 

warchant.

 

BTW, I have yet to go to a NASA event.

and also when refering to NASA, do you refer to it as a N.A.S.A. event(spelled out basically)? or do you as mebers refer to it as NASA, like the space program. (god bless them)?

[obzezzed350]

Space program lol

[nasaregistrar]

Okay sorry guys/gals,

I am just a little PO'ed by the scca. It just seems as though they are just concerned about the "workers" and not the "driver". For being a non-profit organization things have got a little weird lately, or just maybe it has been this way all along.

I willl leave this short and take some input. I know(or pick up a vibe) I am not he only the only one that feels this way.

 

I just need reassurance that I am not the only one.

 

warchant.

 

BTW, I have yet to go to a NASA event.

and also when refering to NASA, do you refer to it as a N.A.S.A. event(spelled out basically)? or do you as mebers refer to it as NASA, like the space program. (god bless them)?

There are 2 very different organizational structures doing basically the same thing. Each do some things exceptionally well. Each also has regions that differ. Nasa basically has a place for any car to class. S club, you really need to build a car for a particular class.. NASA has the integrated HPDE program so there are both groups in the paddock and being on the same track ( conditions wise)on the same day. You want Open wheel cars, then you need to go where they can run.

Look at the tracks you can reasonably get to, see who/when/what is going on, go out for a Sat. and watch how the event runs. Get a schedule, Figure out where you would be in the schedule and decide which one suits you better.

[boomn29]

There are 2 very different organizational structures doing basically the same thing. Each do some things exceptionally well. Each also has regions that differ. Nasa basically has a place for any car to class. S club, you really need to build a car for a particular class.. NASA has the integrated HPDE program so there are both groups in the paddock and being on the same track ( conditions wise)on the same day. You want Open wheel cars, then you need to go where they can run.

Look at the tracks you can reasonably get to, see who/when/what is going on, go out for a Sat. and watch how the event runs. Get a schedule, Figure out where you would be in the schedule and decide which one suits you better.

That's a very good synopsis. Let me throw in my .02. I'm a NASA member; and also instruct for the SCCA so ya might say I'm neutral(ish).

 

The biggest benefits I see to NASA:

 

Different atmosphere -

• It truely is a good bunch of guys, and very helpful everywhere in the paddock. Specifically in the GL/MW; Dave Royce really wants and listens to feedback about scheduling and admin suggestions and makes them happen. Really makes ya feel u are part of the org.
  

Room for ALL cars -

• Check out the insane classing system the national guys - mainly Greg G. - go through. They have really any car you could think of base classed to help provide an even playing field. So theoretically you really can bring any car to an event and be competitive assuming you can drive. On top of that; there's an equally insane amount of time spent on the mod list point assessments. So pick a car, mod it to the limit of a particular class - and odds are you will be competitive.
  

HPDE / TT Program -

• There's really nothing like it anywhere. Nothing that offers someone the progression from a first time track visitor in HPDE-1 to get the 1-on-1 coaching they need and 'graduating' up through HPDE 2-3-4 and into TT if you so choose. Bam; you're competing! Add in a cage and safety equipment and those TT cars share the same ruleset as the PT cars - bam you're ready to w2w racing! Note - appropriate licensing needed (no idiots allowed!)
  

 

One thing NASA does not have in every region is NASA-x (aka Auto-X). They are building that up though, so if you want that email the directors!

Associated with that thought, one of the biggest problems with the SCCA's structure is they basically jump from Autox straight to w2w racing. Not all that great an idea. They have realized this at least in the MidWest area and are back-peddaling to fill in a sort of HPDE program.

 

Oh, and btw; NASA fees are about 1/2 of the SCCA yearly fees...

[Ev]

I have seen it summed up as simple as "Club" vs. "Business".

 

SCCA is a club. With any club, you get the elitist gray hairs that want to run it their way, the old way. They aren't flexible, and stick to an established set of rules based on understandings from many years of running the club. They don't look at individual situations, they look at "how it's been handled in the past".

 

NASA, is a business. People bitch, but they change with the ebb and flow of the current market. They cater to the current crop of enthusiasts (what ever that current crop is), not the folks who want to run their 69 MG. If you get 10 people who want to run Spec Yugo, I would expect a local NASA franchise would allow you to run a SY class within their ranks. Try that with SCCA.

 

Personally, I think the NASA Performance Touring is the best thing going.

[Weston]

They're both essentially businesses and direct competitors. SCCA just hasn't figured out that they're a business yet. They both have comparable offerings and their own strengths and weaknesses. SCCA is too slow to adapt or reach out to new people (if they even do at all), while NASA can be impulsive and short-sighted. Neither one is universally "better"... just pick the one that fits your situation or desires better. I was with SCCA, but I switched to NASA as soon as they came to town, because my local region (Rocky Mountain) is great and they have the class that I want to race in (944-Spec). That has earned them some loyalty from me, hence why I stuck it out through spec tire and other nonsense, but I'm still not one to be jumping on anyone's bandwagon.

[cbuzz]

I am an EX SCCA long time racer. Moved on due to old school management tactics and poor customer relations.

 

NASA is the current biz model that works for me. Plus itr has a growing class of 944's and that is what I like to race. Not to mention lower fees.

 

My main complaint with NASA is sometimes the sessions are too short (trying to get too many cars on track in one day). Overall the NASA system works better. Less management = better customer response.

[ddavidv]

NASA is a better fit for me. The SCCA classes and rules are too arcane and complicated for me. They didn't offer a spec class that I wanted to race in, and I didn't want to have to keep buying the Hot Car of the Year every time they altered the classes. Plus, they are too expensive IMO.

 

The people in NASA Mid-Atlantic have always been professional, funny, on-time and helpful. The HPDE system is a model that SCCA seems oblivious to for attracting new drivers. I've met some nice folks in the SCCA, but they were almost all exclusively drivers. The staff tended to be curmudgeonly at best, arrogant and anti-social at worst. I may still play with them in a Solo capacity, but have no interest in their road racing program.

 

The way to choose is to spend time with each organization. Each locale will vary with how business is conducted. Some regions are better than others, even if they do use the same play book. I'm a very satisfied NASA 'customer' and sell it to lots of other people.

[944-Spec#94]

Nasa was created because SCCA did not fill the needs of all its members.

 

SCCA has a long history of club racing, but some times that history gets in the way. NASA was created because guys like Jerry Kunzman figured he could do it better. Sort of like the way alot of businesses are created.

 

So the model was started to capture the good things of grassroots motorsports organization but ditch many of the thing people have dis-liked about SCCA. So far NASA his found nitch and even epanded greatly. Because it is run like a business decisions can be made faster, the organziation can respond more quickly to the hot trends. Also because it is run like a business when drivers don't show NASA is forced to respond to keep the pocket book in line.

 

Each region is run like franchise and that keeps each local director in tune with his drivers and needs. If he does not respond to the drivers needs they won't show and he will lose money. If they do respond he as some $$$ to be gained.

 

Now not all things NASA does are perfect. Anyone can make mistakes, but on the whole you just need to look at attendance numbers to see how well it is going. SCCA may still be larger, but SCCA is being forced to respond to the presenece of NASA since it is pulling existing drivers and other times pulling in new drivers who might have gone to SCCA.

 

I personally have never raced SCCA. I know people that have. Most SCCA complaints are about the old guard not wanting to change for the times. The NASA complaints come from National Office moving too fast. Overall I can see both happening at times, but feel that NASA's system just allows for more flexibility and it customer focused model tends to work better when you have the right leaders and the helm.

[cbuzz]

Well said Joe, SCCA is still racing 50 year old cars (production classes) and continues to bend the rules to keep them active. Very few newer models of cars in SCCA. The only place they really fit is in Showroom Stock classes. That requires them to run almost stock with interior. Not a great plan.

 

Because NASA is a for profit organization with a minimum amount of chiefs it can respond quickly to it's customers needs. The SCCA has multiple layers of beurocrats protecting their turf. Nothing happens quickly and when it does finally happen it is too late and too muddled.

 

I left the SCCA after I let my racing license expire for a total of 8 months after 10 years of membership. The hoops I was asked to jump through (list all racing experience by date, get signed affidavits from drivers I had raced against who would vouch for me, get another physical etc.) that it did not seem worth it. NASA on the other hand (I had been a NASA racers for 5+ years during the SCCA membership) knew who I was when I called, required no info except a current physical that they had in their office. It was and always has been very easy.

 

The SCCA is the place if you want to race open wheel cars.

[Meat]

The SCCA is the place if you want to race open wheel cars.

 

the only appealing aspect of the SCCA in my mind (apart from Solo2)

[B.KRAUS]

Ill just give you all my thoughts.ive been with scca since 93 and nasa since 93 and i will tell all of you there is a big difference.and its preaty simple.scca has a ton of real race cars.tube frame,fiberglass cars.nasa has production base cars.dont get me wrong i love both scca and nasa.nasa you get more running sessions.1 weekend with nasa here on the west coast 2 practice 2 qual 2 race.scca 1 practice 1 qual 1 race.i run hc1 in norcal nasa and love it.when i want to race my stock car i run with scca.and thats my thoughts on this.i would also add that scca HATES body contact,and nasa HATES it to but nasa is a little more racey than scca imo.good luck to all of you.

[tacovini]

There was an Autoweek article last year (Oct. 27, 2008 issue) that summed it all up pretty well and provided a little history of both organizations.

 

ALPHABET SOUP; SCCA, NASA: What's the difference? BY STEVEN COLE SMITH

 

-=- T