bpanther Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dang.... That was honestly some of the best 944 racing I have ever seen. A seven car battle for first is just too awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck T. Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Video and FULL RACE reports are on the way ! Woo Hoo I won my race for the year ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Ahh.. sounds like Chuck was holding up half the field! Nice Job!.. Chuck.. I am waiting for the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Sunday's video from my car... Windows Media: http://www.rm944.com/events/2009-07-11_12%20Pueblo/Weston%20-%20Sun%20Main%20Race.wmv Vimeo: http://www.vimeo.com/5595743 My rear camera came unplugged after a few laps, but it would have captured more of #69 Sean Thul if it were working. More stuff from the weekend will be here: http://www.rm944.com/events/2009-07-11_12%20Pueblo/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cullen winter Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Weston, thanks for posting that up so fast, and nice job of pouncing on my entry gaff at nine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944cer Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Nice run at the start. Now I know how those cars in the back do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thanks. Yeah, the one benefit to being at the back at Pueblo is that the green is flying as you come around turn 10, so you can just stay on the gas. Too bad I couldn't seem to find a place to be in Turn 1... I saw Chris running out of road on the inside, so I tried to find another path, but it was a bit late for that. Phil had the right approach by just going to the outside to begin with... he started to my left, and it looks like he got the same run on the start as I did, but he just stayed to the left as everyone dove to the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944cer Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Nice job on the driving though. Smooth and consistant. Sunday's race for me was all bad; oil cooler ruptured, overheated caused by bleeder valve/temp sensor leak I think and tires are done. Any ideas on fixing the threads on the bleeder valve, now a temp sensor besides helicoil? The housing had been worked on before I taped it for the sending unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cullen winter Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I got by quite a few cars at 1 on the inside, but had to go two in the dirt to avoid contact. Damn that was fun !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdirks Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Thanks. Yeah, the one benefit to being at the back at Pueblo is that the green is flying as you come around turn 10, so you can just stay on the gas. Otherwise known as "Dirksing" the start... . But that usually happens at Pueblo when the pole sitter's pace is waaay too fast. Does anyone know if this happened at the back on Saturday's race? I tried to maintain a very slow speed before the green. Do we need the pace car to slow up more (or sooner) so there is a chance for the entire group to be in position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck T. Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Maybe more standing starts will help with the "Dirksing the start" From what I can see the mid pack cars need to stay tight after forming up. if they close the gap coming to the green the drivers in the back close the gap the same way and wind up with a run. I will be talking to our race director and comp school Instructors to make sure we see less "Dirksing the start" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snymo Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Do we need the pace car to slow up more (or sooner) so there is a chance for the entire group to be in position? Dirks, For reference, I slow down out of Turn 7 at Pueblo so that when I exit Turn 8 I am doing 30-35 mph. If the field isn't lined up behind me by the entry to Turn 9, I'll slow down a little more. I'm constantly checking my mirrors and have Race Control on the radio with their view from the tower. I try to stay right at 30 out of Turn 9 and drop the field as late as possible to still make it into hot pit lane. That's what I "try" to do. It's up to the pole sitter to maintain that speed until the green is shown. On Sunday, they put me in between the 944-Spec group and the non-944 group for the main race to keep the seperation at the start. The non-944 group didn't seperate enough for the qualy race on Sunday and the Miatas were passing 944s after lap 2. If you need/want me to do something different next time just let me know. Shouldn't be a problem at PPIR next month, might be a problem at HPR and with the early hot pit lane entry at Miller, it could definitely be a problem. I'm driving the pace car at Nationals, so let me know if the 944-Spec group wants anything special done and I'll try to make it happen. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdirks Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Ooooo...standing starts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdirks Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Rick, Yeah- I know you drive pretty slow starting from T8. That's why I can't figure out why we can't get organized by T10. Hopefully someone will let us know what happened at the back of the pack on Saturday, because I slowed down even more than your pace car speed after you pulled off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The fact that 944's get their own start is pretty cool, but we really need to make sure our group is in good formation with no screwing around, otherwise I would expect that we'll lose that privilege. We've had a few cases in the past where the start really should have been aborted due to our error, but that wasn't practical because it was a split start. I started 5th Saturday and don't recall seeing any issues from where I was at, but I don't know what went on behind me, and my rear camera wasn't working that day either (something wrong with the SD card). Sunday's start looked a lot better than what I've seen in the past, but as you all saw in the video, the cars sped up, so Phil and I had to speed up even more just to get back in position, and that's when the green dropped, so that worked to our advantage. As for Miller, the fast pace laps we had last year were great for maximizing our time for racing, but we ended up broken up into 2 or 3 packs by the time the race started. I was still hauling around that last turn and trying to get in position when the green dropped, while there were also a number of cars behind me that I couldn't even see in my mirrors. The same thing happened both days, and it allowed me to pass half the field on the start with a broken motor. It worked out well for me, but it handed me an advantage that I shouldn't have had. I'm a big fan of standing starts, and it's not just because I used to be a drag racer... there's just a much better chance of having a fair start. They're not so great on 25 year old rubber-centered 944 clutch discs though, but those are ticking time bombs no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snymo Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Weston, I hear what you are saying about the pace lap at Miller. With 3+ miles, we need to balance a realistic speed (the clock starts when we leave grid) and getting the field formed up. With that said, no matter what we decide it's ultimately up to the racers to get out of grid and caught up to the pace car. The good thing about Miller is that we can see a lot and we'll know if people are lagging behind and forming two groups instead of one. I'll make sure to bring this up with Dave and make sure the pace lap is quick enough to get it out of the way and yet forces the field to get into position before they are dropped at the entrance to pit lane. I'm also going to ask that we use the pace car for ALL the sessions that are races (qualifying or championship) to make sure they all the competitors get used to the process and no one gets caught out in the championship race. Thanks for the feedback. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The problem for Miller is that if the back of the field is not formed up well, going around again is an option I would not like to see because of the time and affect on our racing time. If the front of the field is good, the race needs to start because of that. Perhaps there should be a driver meeting early in the event to discuss the start issue. I think it would help to have a place on the track where everyone is "required" to be in position. Pick the spot and make sure everyone knows that is the spot to be in place with a black flag (after the start) for any cars that make things a mess. Giving cars a black flag penalty for not forming up correctly for a start is a great way to stop the problem without penalizing everyone else with another pace lap. The corner stations near the form up spot could be out and motioning drivers to close up. Heck, there could even be a sign board that one could hold up that says "Form up" or something. I think the idea of using a pace car for as many sessions as possible is a great suggestion. My 2 cents. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpanther Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Perhaps there should be a driver meeting early in the event to discuss the start issue. I think it would help to have a place on the track where everyone is "required" to be in position. Pick the spot and make sure everyone knows that is the spot to be in place with a black flag (after the start) for any cars that make things a mess. Giving cars a black flag penalty for not forming up correctly for a start is a great way to stop the problem without penalizing everyone else with another pace lap. Jim, Absolutely. Talk to JWL, he'll be your race director. I did this at Nationals 2 years ago with all the 944Cup cars who were split start from the SpecFoci. I threatened (esp the front row) that I did not want to wave off the start and that anybody screwing it up would get black flagged for a stop and go. Both starts were picture perfect. I think maybe I need to do this locally to get Venturini to shape up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_venturini Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 I dont think Ive ever dirks'ed a start. Thats the one thing I havent screwed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 With respect ALL sessions at Miller. Two things need to happen. 1) don't go super slow on the out lap 2) don't go super slow on the in lap after the checker. That will speed things up. The first part of the course is fast and flowing so that should allow for a fast "out lap". Part of what can happen however is cars rounding the turn to get on to pit lane can put the pack way behind right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944cer Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Otherwise known as "Dirksing" the start... . But that usually happens at Pueblo when the pole sitter's pace is waaay too fast. Does anyone know if this happened at the back on Saturday's race? I tried to maintain a very slow speed before the green. Do we need the pace car to slow up more (or sooner) so there is a chance for the entire group to be in position? I finally had a good start on Saturday and was grided mid pack as usual. YeeHaa I think Sunday's polesitter was just a little too fast and the farther back cars were still coming around 10, trying to form up too late as the green dropped. The flagger did wait as long as he could. I do like the idea of the black flag at nationals on specific cars if they don't form up correctly and get a run on the competitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snymo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 With respect ALL sessions at Miller. Two things need to happen. 1) don't go super slow on the out lap 2) don't go super slow on the in lap after the checker. That will speed things up. The first part of the course is fast and flowing so that should allow for a fast "out lap". Part of what can happen however is cars rounding the turn to get on to pit lane can put the pack way behind right off the bat. Joe, when I ran the pace car at Miller last year we did a very fast out lap, upwards of 70 MPH at times until Tooele Turn (turn 19) and then slowed it down for the field to get into formation. That seemed to allow everyone to warm things up properly, get formed up and not take forever to get to the green. While I haven't discussed it with anyone yet, I would imagine that something similar will be done at Nationals. However, regardless of what we actually decide, I'll make sure that all the racers know what the procedue is on grid before the pace car leaves for the outlap. The more information the racers have about what I am doing in the pace car the better it will be for everyone. At least I hope so! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
944-Spec#94 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The one thing about a 70 mph pace lap is average lap speed is only 75 mph or so. What that means is that it could be darn near flatout for some. Who ever runs the pace car for our groups and the other groups needs to be aware that the guys in the back are there cause they are not fast. Not nice to have pace car setting faster laps that some race cars. However slowing at Tooele is perfect since by they everyone should be able to catch up and run the final turns in formation and get good start. The key is for every one to know they you will slow there. The last thing we need is some guy rounding tooele flatout trying to catch-up and slamming into the cars going slow around past there. Hopefull by the 3rd race start all will be going smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snymo Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 The one thing about a 70 mph pace lap is average lap speed is only 75 mph or so. What that means is that it could be darn near flatout for some. Who ever runs the pace car for our groups and the other groups needs to be aware that the guys in the back are there cause they are not fast. Not nice to have pace car setting faster laps that some race cars. Joe, I said "upwards of 70 MPH at times" not all the way around! After all, the pace car is a Mustang! It is not my intent to "drop" the field by Tooele so I can drive real slow to let the racers catch up. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianacole Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 30MPH average on a 3 mile configuration means a 6 minute out lap... Is it possible to have the pit out for the warm-up allow for using the east course by-pass (if this question makes any sense)? Not knowing the grid location or the facility, this is what I was referencing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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