Members Marcel D. Posted August 4, 2009 Members Posted August 4, 2009 I made it through 3 nice days at the california speedway in HPDE. Altough it was hard to set up the car, I would like to hear from some of the race guys about set up and cambers. I have a 96 EK with a H22. On the banking I could feel the rear of the car getting loose at about 120 mph. On the exit of the hair pin it was pushing quiet a bit. camber is 2 negative on front and 0 in back. I have the progress time atack suspension with progress sway bar in the back and oem bar in the front. 600 pound coils front and 800 pound in back. At this time still no lsd. Any opinions please? Quote
wm577 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 if it's loose in the high speed stuff, and pushing in the low speed stuff, then you need more rear down force. Are you using a rear wing? Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 4, 2009 Author Members Posted August 4, 2009 no not at this moment. Quote
drdisco69 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 You definitely need more rear camber, and maybe more in the front. Camber is very dependent on what tire you're using, and it's size. Does the car have stock rubber bushings? Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 4, 2009 Author Members Posted August 4, 2009 It has all energy suspension bushings front and back with spc toe and camber adjuster with 205/40/17 falken 615 . Rear camber was set to 0 degrees. Quote
drdisco69 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Tire temps will give you a better idea of what the camber should be, but I promise you the static camber needs to be more than 0. The camber recovery in roll is probably less than 100%, and you're going to lose quite a bit from compliance under lateral load as well. If it's a mostly street driven car I would start with -1.5*, optimum may be more. Quote
slammed_93_hatch Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) It has all energy suspension bushings front and back with spc toe and camber adjuster with 205/40/17 falken 615 . Rear camber was set to 0 degrees. this is part of the issue IMO Edited August 4, 2009 by Guest Quote
drdisco69 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 I have all Energy Suspension bushings in my CRX and it doesn't have high speed oversteer problems. I would try attempting some negative camber in the rear before I started replacing bushings, especially since it's adjustable. Out of curiosity, why to you think the bushings are the culprit? I've heard many theories. Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 5, 2009 Author Members Posted August 5, 2009 this is a dedicated track car and this weekend was it first event. I know it is going to take a while to fine tune everything. Next event at Buttomwillow I want to have an lsd and bigger tires maybe 225 45 17. That is why I want to adjust cambers a little bit more. I know I have to take the temperatures and adjust acordingly but what do you think a base line would be? Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 5, 2009 Author Members Posted August 5, 2009 I don't know if you guys are familiar with the speedway but when I was going into the banking on turn one I was lifting from 130 down to about 110 and still felt the back end wanted to come around a little bit. I was able to mantain 110 to 115 through out the bank and floor it out. I know there was cars way faster than that and they didn't have the rear wing because of drag down the straigth. Quote
Zook Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 If you're feeling the rear get loose, lifting isn't going to make it any better. Is the rear end actually stepping out? Or does it just feel like it's going to "step out"? Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 5, 2009 Author Members Posted August 5, 2009 it felt like it was on the borderline of steping out. I just didn't want to find out just how fine was that line while on the bank. I should have said that I had to lift before entering the bank and then keep light pressure on the gas to pull me through. I wouldn't think about lifting while in the bank or you know what would happen unless completely necessary Quote
BrianZ Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 Have you thought of putting some camber in the rear of the car? Quote
eclricochet Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 I'm not a licensed racer but I do TT and instruct. Personally, you don't have too terribly much compliance in the suspension. With the lack of compliance and limited experience, I bet the car is handling pretty good but you might just not be used to it. Negative camber in the rear should help but I think seat time will make you more comfortable with the car. Not trying to offend, I just wanted to take a different point of view on the issue at hand. --Doug Quote
Redstone Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 I agree with Jimmy, the es bushings in the rear aren't helping. Mainly if you have the trailing arm bushing. I would replace it with a pci spherical or a oem/mugen replacement. Definetly add some rear camber. I'd start with -2 degrees, maybe -2.2. Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 5, 2009 Author Members Posted August 5, 2009 no offense taken , actually I totally agree with you that more seat time is needed to be able to read the car more. Now going into the bushing. Is the reason for a mugen replacement to get the car to slide more in the back?. Also I will try to get more negative camber to see if that helps. Quote
eclricochet Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 no offense taken , actually I totally agree with you that more seat time is needed to be able to read the car more. Now going into the bushing. Is the reason for a mugen replacement to get the car to slide more in the back?. Also I will try to get more negative camber to see if that helps. By the mounting rod in the bushing not being molded in it would appear that the rod could get stuck in there twisted. I know that this is the main design difference in the bushings besides the material. If I am wrong please chime in. --Doug Quote
Members Marcel D. Posted August 6, 2009 Author Members Posted August 6, 2009 you are right , actually you have to extract the rod out of the oem bushing and clean it up and then insert it in the es bushing. The use of the grease they give you might help. Honestly I don't know if there is twisting of the rod. Quote
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