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Posted

Well, folks, we have over 30 entries at the National Championship (and more to come), and only one entry from an easternish region (the Great Lakes region). For those saying that the western regions never came to the Mid-Ohio Championships, take a look at the graph ... over 25% of last years entries were from western regions:

 

qqs4cj.jpg

 

So, I know it's a long trip, but this is your one chance a year to vie for National supremecy. As some contended early on following the move announcement, if we got the competitors, they would come... Well...?

Posted

Ian,

 

Not to pick a fight, but as long as we're sharing statistics and as apparently the only "Eastern" GTS driver signed up for Nationals--if you can call Ohio, which is fully 500 miles from the East cost, "Eastern"--I think there is a bigger picture here that's either being ignored or not spoken about in polite circles.

 

Your chart is very interesting. What it shows is that last year--all the whining about participation from the West Coast notwithstanding--Californians were second only to Ohioans in their attendance at NASA's National Championships. Given that--and assuming no bribes were involved--you have to wonder why anyone could possibly have thought it would be a good idea to move these races to a track that is pretty much sitting in the one location in the US that can rightly be called The Middle of Nowhere.

 

USPopulation.jpg

 

As shown above in the map of the population distribution of the US (circa 2000), Miller is within 600 miles of, well, nothing (the red circles are about 600 miles in radius). San Francisco is 725 miles. LA is about the same. At 600 miles, Denver is about as close as you can get. Kansas City is 1,100. The Mississippi river, which is unimaginably far West for most Easterners, 1,400.

 

By comparison, within 600 miles of Mid-Ohio you'll find fully 60% of the entire population of the United States AND 50% of the population of Canada.

 

If somebody had said, "Let's try to find a track that is absolutely as inconvenient as possible for every single racer in the US--and Alaska and Hawaii weren't options--looking at this map I'm not sure there is any possible choice better than Miller. It is miserably far from EVERYBODY.

 

I'm sure there are too many wheels already in motion to actually do anything about it at this point but I sure hope somebody re-thinks this decision and moves the Championships back to Mid-Ohio (or Road America or somewhere within reach of the actual people of the US) next year.

 

And, for the record, except for the fact my ego is just big enough that I would like to be the first two-time GTS National Champ, I wouldn't be going either.

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Posted

I was planning on going, but after blowing through 3 motors in a month this year, that kind of killed my budget to go out west

 

Really wish I coulda made it. Even started the initial planning stages of hiring a transporter, etc.

Posted

I'm glad that Nationals are being moved, they should not always be in the same place as it gives the "locals" too much of an advantage. With movement, you will change the players at the event, some, including me, are not going to travel that far to race.

 

Having said that, Nationals needs to come to the SE after the Miller stint

Posted
Well, folks, we have over 30 entries at the National Championship (and more to come), and only one entry from an easternish region (the Great Lakes region). For those saying that the western regions never came to the Mid-Ohio Championships, take a look at the graph ... over 25% of last years entries were from western regions:

 

qqs4cj.jpg

 

So, I know it's a long trip, but this is your one chance a year to vie for National supremecy. As some contended early on following the move announcement, if we got the competitors, they would come... Well...?

 

Would be curious to see what this graph looks like for GTS only...Ian?

Posted
Would be curious to see what this graph looks like for GTS only...Ian?

 

Ah, the insightful one I would post that, but it would undermine my poking ... (that's only half true):

 

5lqx45.jpg

 

So, yes, it does undermine my prodding, as ~10% of entries last year came from west of the Mississippi. However, this year entries east of Ol' Miss are ~3% of the total so far.

Posted

Huh, No CA GTS cars. Interesting. How is the GTS CA attendance this year coming.

 

Also, how is attendance overall? are you on track with past years, ahead, behind.

 

I know why I am not coming (besides my 911 is having major surgery on the motor and the 944Cup prepared 944 would not do as well in GTS1).

 

I am not coming because I do not find Miller interesting enough to cross the country for. There are plenty of tracks out west that I would, but Miller is not one of them.

 

The drive is a serious one. But I would do it if there was a great track at the end of the rainbow. One with history. One with something that you could talk to anyone and they would be impressed that you drove 'there'. Try that with Miller and you will get the 'where ?' response.

 

I like the event to move around. Just would like to see it at more famos tracks. Ask any of the SCCA guys if they like the current location of their runoffs.

 

Ed Baus

Posted

Ed,

 

I completely agree and, in fact, your comments echo some I have shared privately. Substitute "Laguna Seca" or even "Sears Point" for "Miller Motorsports Park" and I suspect you'd have a long list of Eastern US entries.

Posted

I would of been there.... but , all blowed up now.... motor won't be ready. The nationals aren't even talked about in the South East circle of GTS drivers that I am aware of.... so I believe I am safe in saying no one from here is making the trip (GTS) that is. I could be wrong.

The west coast event will be interesting, as it shakes out.

 

Fc

Posted
Would be curious to see what this graph looks like for GTS only...Ian?

 

Ah, the insightful one I would post that, but it would undermine my poking ... (that's only half true):

 

5lqx45.jpg

 

So, yes, it does undermine my prodding, as ~10% of entries last year came from west of the Mississippi. However, this year entries east of Ol' Miss are ~3% of the total so far.

 

Ian, I applaud your efforts to garner additional participation but your initial graph was a bit misleading...thanks for sharing the important info with us! I believe last years BIG discussion was centered around the lack of west coast GTS racers at nationals AND a lack of west coast GTS racers at the regional level.

 

While a "worthy" track is important I think the competition is most important. Who wants to win a championship when everyone knows the best racers aren't showing up? NASA built up the east coast with the championships and we now have some very strong regions. So now they're going to do the same thing out west and hopefully they'll develop some strong regions. So when it all comes full circle in a few years we'll have a kickass championship at a great venue!

Posted
Huh, No CA GTS cars. Interesting. How is the GTS CA attendance this year coming.

 

Also, how is attendance overall? are you on track with past years, ahead, behind.

 

So far, the CA GTS contingent has been strong, as strong as any east region attendance (seeing 15-20 cars pretty regularly). Across the nation, GTS numbers have been up in the early part of the year (there's a post around here somewhere with the graphs), but I haven't compiled the numbers from the past couple of months.

Posted
Ian,

 

Not to pick a fight, but as long as we're sharing statistics and as apparently the only "Eastern" GTS driver signed up for Nationals--if you can call Ohio, which is fully 500 miles from the East cost, "Eastern"--I think there is a bigger picture here that's either being ignored or not spoken about in polite circles.

 

Your chart is very interesting. What it shows is that last year--all the whining about participation from the West Coast notwithstanding--Californians were second only to Ohioans in their attendance at NASA's National Championships. Given that--and assuming no bribes were involved--you have to wonder why anyone could possibly have thought it would be a good idea to move these races to a track that is pretty much sitting in the one location in the US that can rightly be called The Middle of Nowhere.

 

USPopulation.jpg

 

As shown above in the map of the population distribution of the US (circa 2000), Miller is within 600 miles of, well, nothing (the red circles are about 600 miles in radius). San Francisco is 725 miles. LA is about the same. At 600 miles, Denver is about as close as you can get. Kansas City is 1,100. The Mississippi river, which is unimaginably far West for most Easterners, 1,400.

 

By comparison, within 600 miles of Mid-Ohio you'll find fully 60% of the entire population of the United States AND 50% of the population of Canada.

 

If somebody had said, "Let's try to find a track that is absolutely as inconvenient as possible for every single racer in the US--and Alaska and Hawaii weren't options--looking at this map I'm not sure there is any possible choice better than Miller. It is miserably far from EVERYBODY.

 

I'm sure there are too many wheels already in motion to actually do anything about it at this point but I sure hope somebody re-thinks this decision and moves the Championships back to Mid-Ohio (or Road America or somewhere within reach of the actual people of the US) next year.

 

And, for the record, except for the fact my ego is just big enough that I would like to be the first two-time GTS National Champ, I wouldn't be going either.

 

 

That pretty much covers it.

 

It would be nice if the Championship was moved around the Country. N, S, E, W, to the various premier Tracks in those areas. My .02.

Posted

We made the decision to move the Championships for a number of important reasons. None of which had to do with GTS specifically. We have to keep in mind our future goals and take all things into consideration.

 

With that said, I will get to the point. When we made the announcement last year about moving the event, the overwhelming response from GTS drivers was, "Fine, but we don't want to drive all that way to race against ourselves. Get west coast entries and count me in." Ok, we built it. Now where are you?

 

In closing, GTS is important to us. However, one series does not a whole picture make. I am more than pleased to see the current GTS entry list, with more than half coming from CA. I am just disappointed in those that said they would come to the party if the west coast stepped up. We delivered, you didn’t.

 

Jerry Kunzman

Executive Director

Posted
We made the decision to move the Championships for a number of important reasons. None of which had to do with GTS specifically. We have to keep in mind our future goals and take all things into consideration.

 

With that said, I will get to the point. When we made the announcement last year about moving the event, the overwhelming response from GTS drivers was, "Fine, but we don't want to drive all that way to race against ourselves. Get west coast entries and count me in." Ok, we built it. Now where are you?

 

In closing, GTS is important to us. However, one series does not a whole picture make. I am more than pleased to see the current GTS entry list, with more than half coming from CA. I am just disappointed in those that said they would come to the party if the west coast stepped up. We delivered, you didn’t.

 

Jerry Kunzman

Executive Director

 

Quite frankly I think this is the wrong attitude for an executive director to be taking with his customers (at least publicly). No need to justify your decision on a public forum...too little to gain and too much to lose for someone in your position! IMO, the forums should be something you follow but very seldom, if ever, participate in. (Emails, texts and forum posts are sometimes difficult to "read" so maybe i misinterpreted...)

 

NASA and GTS do a great job nationally and regionally so let's get past the "disappointment" and the "we delivered and you didn't" attitudes.

Posted
We made the decision to move the Championships for a number of important reasons. None of which had to do with GTS specifically. We have to keep in mind our future goals and take all things into consideration.

 

With that said, I will get to the point. When we made the announcement last year about moving the event, the overwhelming response from GTS drivers was, "Fine, but we don't want to drive all that way to race against ourselves. Get west coast entries and count me in." Ok, we built it. Now where are you?

 

In closing, GTS is important to us. However, one series does not a whole picture make. I am more than pleased to see the current GTS entry list, with more than half coming from CA. I am just disappointed in those that said they would come to the party if the west coast stepped up. We delivered, you didn’t.

 

Jerry Kunzman

Executive Director

OPPS !!Jerry... I think Michael D. is right.

Posted

I value your opinions. I would hope that you would value mine. That's all I have to say.

 

Jerry

Posted
I value your opinions. I would hope that you would value mine. That's all I have to say.

 

Jerry

 

We do value your opinion and you can gauge that by the participation ($$) at the National and Regional events! Unfortunately, the move out west AND the economy will most likely affect your "Nationals" business this year (referring to GTS only and moreso the economy). Although I think 30 entries is pretty darn good! And so what if a few guys are still pissed that you moved it out west...they'll get over it unless you keep reminding them about it!

Posted
We made the decision to move the Championships for a number of important reasons. None of which had to do with GTS specifically. We have to keep in mind our future goals and take all things into consideration.

 

With that said, I will get to the point. When we made the announcement last year about moving the event, the overwhelming response from GTS drivers was, "Fine, but we don't want to drive all that way to race against ourselves. Get west coast entries and count me in." Ok, we built it. Now where are you?

 

In closing, GTS is important to us. However, one series does not a whole picture make. I am more than pleased to see the current GTS entry list, with more than half coming from CA. I am just disappointed in those that said they would come to the party if the west coast stepped up. We delivered, you didn’t.

 

Jerry Kunzman

Executive Director

 

I thought Barr was off in the deep stuff...... with this responce I see you are too... I am tired of all you children,,, Nasa wanted GTS, you have it.. make something of it.. so far GTS is only a great place to by stickers and shirts.

Sooner than later your blue collar racers are going to leave.. get your act together. all said and done,, lets see how the nationals play out regarding attendence.

 

Fc

Tag your it

Posted
We made the decision to move the Championships for a number of important reasons. None of which had to do with GTS specifically. We have to keep in mind our future goals and take all things into consideration.

 

With that said, I will get to the point. When we made the announcement last year about moving the event, the overwhelming response from GTS drivers was, "Fine, but we don't want to drive all that way to race against ourselves. Get west coast entries and count me in." Ok, we built it. Now where are you?

 

In closing, GTS is important to us. However, one series does not a whole picture make. I am more than pleased to see the current GTS entry list, with more than half coming from CA. I am just disappointed in those that said they would come to the party if the west coast stepped up. We delivered, you didn’t.

 

Jerry Kunzman

Executive Director

 

Quite frankly I think this is the wrong attitude for an executive director to be taking with his customers (at least publicly). No need to justify your decision on a public forum...too little to gain and too much to lose for someone in your position! IMO, the forums should be something you follow but very seldom, if ever, participate in. (Emails, texts and forum posts are sometimes difficult to "read" so maybe i misinterpreted...)

 

NASA and GTS do a great job nationally and regionally so let's get past the "disappointment" and the "we delivered and you didn't" attitudes.

 

+1

 

Jerry, you are obviously not in marketing or public relations.

And as a paying customer of your product I find your comments out of line.

Posted

We can always begin talking about an east coast championship race for next year

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Posted
We can always begin talking about an east coast championship race for next year

 

O no u did-ENT!!!!!!!

Posted
We can always begin talking about an east coast championship race for next year

 

O no u did-ENT!!!!!!!

 

I didn't start it, nor did I ever say that I was going to go to Utah.

Posted

So, in all seriousness, why aren't the GTS racers East of the Mississippi showing up for this year? We've got a new field of competitors to play with at a pretty darn nice track, so we're puzzled. Is it the crap economy? Is Miller not enough of a "name" track? Would a bigger name track do the trick or is the tow and time off simply too much to undertake?

 

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

-JWL

 

John Lindsey

Chief Divisional Director

NASA

Posted (edited)

Jerry: What a B.S. comment!!!

 

Why would I drive 1600 miles to compete with 5 others when I have 12 to compete with this weekend at Mid Ohio! We had like 25 or 28 in GTS overall. John many have already answered your question...cost, budget, quality of track, time away from family and business, economy, only 5 other GTS-2 drivers etc etc

Edited by Guest
  • Members
Posted
So, in all seriousness, why aren't the GTS racers East of the Mississippi showing up for this year? We've got a new field of competitors to play with at a pretty darn nice track, so we're puzzled. Is it the crap economy? Is Miller not enough of a "name" track? Would a bigger name track do the trick or is the tow and time off simply too much to undertake?

 

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

-JWL

 

John Lindsey

Chief Divisional Director

NASA

 

John, as I posted earlier, I was planning on going. Even had lined up some transport options. However, I blew through 3 motors in one month. That, coupled with crap ecomomy, etc will have to postpone my Miller attendance to next year (hopefully). Youre talking at least a $4000 weekend not including the week I have to take off work too Really wanted to go, but I cant do it.

 

Lots of things have happened since Sept 2008 for many people. Some GTS guys dont even have their cars anymore.

 

You guys did build a nice West Coast field and that is commendable. Hopefully they have a blast and all return (+more) in 2010!

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