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richard migliori

How about enduro for the Nationals?

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richard migliori

SCCA runoffs are like the sprint nats, not an enduro format. it could be compared to nasa sprints. So, where would you format a qualifier for enduros when some regions don't offer the chance to qualify? It sounds like this is one of the last q's to be discussed. Some ideas already posted:

 

Sprint races

1 enduro

min 1 year competition driving without incident

 

So, what would the reason be for a qualifier anyway? It is all about the bottom line and making the event profitable. It is not a good idea to turn down customers ( racers) when it is about putting on a show for profit.

 

What if a racer decides a month before the event that he sees the entrants in his class and decides he can't finish any better than 10th place and then sees he can have a chance at winning the enduro class but did not do some qualifier? He stays home, doesn't enjoy the National experience, and Nasa loses an entry fee. The only time a qualifier would have a benefit in racing is when the demand exceeds the number of positions in the race. That is not the case here. When you know you have 70 positions and you have 100 entries then a qualifier would be required, or a lottery draw.

 

RM

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robbodleimages

Richard,

 

The reason that NASA National requires a minimum number of starts in NASA sprint races is for two reasons.

 

1. It requires that only regular NASA competitors are eligible to be a NASA National Champion.

 

2. It supports the regional system that NASA is designed around.

 

At the Nationals a qualified driver in one class may race in more than one class. That is about making a few extra bucks for NASA and about making the experience more worth the expense for the driver.

 

The 25 Hours of Thunderhill is not a NASA National Championship event because anyone can enter. Which is why you see so many professional teams enter.

 

NASA national will require that only regular NASA enduro competitors are eligible to be NASA National Enduro Champion. That means they need to race NASA Enduros in order to be allowed into a NASA National Championship Race.

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kbrew8991

I could see regional sprints being allowed as substitutes if regional enduros were not available. Nothing is set in stone yet, this is brainstorming.

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robbodleimages

I think allowing sprint races to qualify for a national enduro does nothing to put regional enduros on solid ground. If there is no regional enduro base, there is no national enduro championship.

 

A NASA National Championship is to give NASA Enduro racers a championship. Allowing sprint races and not requiring enduro racing works against that premise. If there are not enough enduro racers at the regional level to support a national championship race, there is no reason for a championship enduro.

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richard migliori

good stuff Rob,

then can we say that you must participate in a min of one enduro (no min time) of if it is not offered in your region, 6 sprints ( 3 weekends of racing)? That sounds pretty reasonable and offers support to whichever class they are competing. But it would have to stay open to those at the last minute that did run sprints and decide to run a national enduro without running one during the regular season. Leaving it at two options to qualify and leave the option of supersizing in sprint and enduro at the nats.

That would discourage the "pro teams" from dropping by and racing that week.

 

RM

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Weed Wacker
I think allowing sprint races to qualify for a national enduro does nothing to put regional enduros on solid ground. If there is no regional enduro base, there is no national enduro championship.

 

A NASA National Championship is to give NASA Enduro racers a championship. Allowing sprint races and not requiring enduro racing works against that premise. If there are not enough enduro racers at the regional level to support a national championship race, there is no reason for a championship enduro.

 

^^^ This ^^^

 

 

I believe the one year without incident would be irrelevant. It helps for people to brag about when buying seats yes, but not if they are providing their own ride. You race the 25hr with pro teams right? Some of those pro drivers i bet have had incidents but there is no issue running with them...

 

The requirements to run nats for the sprint racing is 5 races if i remember right. Thats 2.5 weekends, so why not say 3 enduro's run to get into the big enduro show? That would be the same amount of race "weekends" as the sprint requirement. If regions dont have enduro's to support the requirement then that person would either have to be very vocal about getting their respective region in gear or go to another region and support their enduro program.

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robbodleimages
good stuff Rob,

then can we say that you must participate in a min of one enduro (no min time) of if it is not offered in your region, 6 sprints ( 3 weekends of racing)? That sounds pretty reasonable and offers support to whichever class they are competing. But it would have to stay open to those at the last minute that did run sprints and decide to run a national enduro without running one during the regular season. Leaving it at two options to qualify and leave the option of supersizing in sprint and enduro at the nats.

That would discourage the "pro teams" from dropping by and racing that week.

 

RM

 

That is not up to me. I think NASA National would have their own ideas about the required number of starts.

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richard migliori

I know it's not your call... but you need something on paper as an outline or offering. As presented, they could have an entirely something else in mind, but you have to start somewhere and be it doable and comprehensive.

 

RM

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richard migliori

It's time to start laying down the presentation.

 

See you at the races!

 

Richard Migliori

www.pdg4.com

WERC 2009 Champion

SCCA SP runner up

NASA SU Runner up

2008 ES Runner up 25 hours of TH

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kbrew8991

thanks for taking the lead on this Richard Owe you a good Texas beer or 6 at Enduro Nationals

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richard migliori

Ken,

thanks for your help and insight as I know this will not be an easy sale. We have already put the planning in motion to run the 6 - 8 hour enduro with you guys in Texas in April ( i think you told me the 24th?) I have to see the WERC liine up first. Their opener is usually that weekend. Keep me posted.

 

thanks, Richard

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kbrew8991

I'll keep you posted - its currently scheduled as an 8hr on April 24th @ Texas World Speedway. Last year was 1pm-9pm. I'll know ALOT more after the TX Region Directors meeting on Jan 9th. You'll know when I know

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richard migliori

thanks,

 

RM

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wlfpkrcn1

Richard,

 

Any word on this?

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robbodleimages

i think its a dead issue.

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kbrew8991

Rob, thats not my understanding based on the conversations I've had with Richard...

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robbodleimages

that was my understanding based on conversations i had with jim. maybe i misunderstood. if its going to happen, they need to say something soon. these things require planning.

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kbrew8991

I'll see Richard in person in ~2 weeks if he doesn't post here soon.

 

I agree about the annoucement/planning thing. I'd need to scale back my regional tire budget to make sure I have enough come showtime

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richard migliori

Frankly, Ryan Flaherty told me if I came up with 50k, they were not interested, "EVER". My conclusion to the whole NASA thing is that people who pay a membership fee are not members of a COOL racing organization and have no effective voice in improving the "club". Everyone that possess a membership are "retail customers" and treated as such. It is a shame that something that could be a base for New customers is only looked at an inconvenience to a regular program. They don't make money on endurance races. (bad marketing perhaps) and they are all about "making money" and not listen to the membership, oh, let me rephrase that, they listen but not interested.

 

Case and point: I wanted to promote endurance racing and travel to various regions to support and raise interest and break the age old myth of endurance racing is to hard on equipment. Texas is my next venture and I came up a little short on cash to make the trip. I called Texas region, Main office and asked that if they could help in maybe comping or discounting the entry fee because I was driving 1800 miles and fielding two entries. Main office blew me off, and Texas region did not answer any emails or three phone messages. Last month I went to Washington. Let them know I was coming. They did not comp me but WE had a shop to work and prepare the car, A place to eat, a place to stay over and lots of help. We are not even a member of that group and were treated like we were important and very welcome. A local even took our fuel drums into town and got them filled for us!

 

As much as I love the atmosphere of endurance racing, the teamwork and planning, I have told both Ryan and the main office that I would volunteer for anything that was needed to promote endurance racing in NASA (last year). Bueller, Bueller.....

 

 

RM

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robbodleimages

richard

s

nasa is a business. its not a club. if you want a national endurance race, you need to create one where the revenue is all new and not taking away from an existing event that is successful.

 

this is why there will be no endurance championship at the nationals.

 

there is an east coast travel championship series for AI/AIX/CMC cars that is developing very nicely. those races add a national level of competition to events on the schedule and doesnt require any changes. Just an increase in car count.

 

you could easily start a national champions enduro points championship involving races already scheduled.

 

you could easily work something out with a region currently running a successful enduro race or series where one of the races is billed and promoted as the national championship race. like i suggested with the december road atlanta race.

 

consider a championship series.

 

april at tws 6 hours

june at road atlanta 3 hours

there is a 3 hour at Mid Ohio at somepoint.

 

make it a points championship. you would be surprised how well it would do.

 

you are just not going to squeeze one in at the nationals though.

 

rob

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ST#97
Frankly, Ryan Flaherty told me if I came up with 50k, they were not interested, "EVER". My conclusion to the whole NASA thing is that people who pay a membership fee are not members of a COOL racing organization and have no effective voice in improving the "club". Everyone that possess a membership are "retail customers" and treated as such. It is a shame that something that could be a base for New customers is only looked at an inconvenience to a regular program. They don't make money on endurance races. (bad marketing perhaps) and they are all about "making money" and not listen to the membership, oh, let me rephrase that, they listen but not interested.

 

Case and point: I wanted to promote endurance racing and travel to various regions to support and raise interest and break the age old myth of endurance racing is to hard on equipment. Texas is my next venture and I came up a little short on cash to make the trip. I called Texas region, Main office and asked that if they could help in maybe comping or discounting the entry fee because I was driving 1800 miles and fielding two entries. Main office blew me off, and Texas region did not answer any emails or three phone messages. Last month I went to Washington. Let them know I was coming. They did not comp me but WE had a shop to work and prepare the car, A place to eat, a place to stay over and lots of help. We are not even a member of that group and were treated like we were important and very welcome. A local even took our fuel drums into town and got them filled for us!

 

As much as I love the atmosphere of endurance racing, the teamwork and planning, I have told both Ryan and the main office that I would volunteer for anything that was needed to promote endurance racing in NASA (last year). Bueller, Bueller.....

 

 

RM

 

Richard...reading your post brings back bad memories for me.... It's the NASA Kool-Aid brother.....sadly, my forehead was flat and bloody by the time I figured it out. Lower your expectations and take what is offered which makes you happy....ONLY. Don't try to make things better....it can't be done unless you have Ownership. It's true in any organization, not just NASA. It's their game/business...

 

However, with the rise of 24hours of Lemons and Chumpcar....there are 40 events all over the US this year for some pretty darn good endurance racing and you aren't putting your Mega Dollar race car at risk. I've done 4 Lemons events now and can say, it was MUCH more of a challenge tracking a $500 POS on a 2.4 mile track with 120 other $500 POS's than it was going balls out in an AI car for 6 hours on a 2.9 mile track with 15 cars. Look into it, I think you would have a lot of fun with it.

 

I'm still Jones'n to do a real 24 hour event.

 

Good luck!!!

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richard migliori

AI,

Actually, our funnest endurance race was last year on a different format which we never ran before. Last 3 hour race at Sears Point, and they combined the endurance series with the Radical group and the Honda Challenge cars. It was a great concept in my opinion! Here is what they did: Radicals drove a 1 hour race, Honda Challenge drove a two hour and we drove our 3 hour. About 45 cars total and the pace was surprisingly racy! They should do that again sometime.

 

RM

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