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compressed air vs. naturally aspirated


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Posted

at mmp in aix, will the n/a cars stand a chance against the c/a cars???

is there something that nasa can to do to level the field if not??? (NO2???)

Posted

I was registered for the nationals but pulled out after looking at what AIX has become. Grassroots has been lost on this class and NASA has done nothing to stop the outrageous costs that have spiraled out of control to a point of "factory cars only". Someone who breaks out of AI and wants to run a little quicker has no chance in AIX as it has become a money class with no end in sight. Something needs to be done as this class will die. A simple solution would be to add 500lbs to a "compressed" car. There is a class for big money cars, its called Super Unlimited so lets bring AIX back to the intention of the class and level the playing field so we can all get back to racing for fun and not seeing who can spend the most money, get the most sponsors or do the most development on engines that were never intended to be used in a grassroots series. Just my two cents

Posted
I was registered for the nationals but pulled out after looking at what AIX has become. Grassroots has been lost on this class and NASA has done nothing to stop the outrageous costs that have spiraled out of control to a point of "factory cars only". Someone who breaks out of AI and wants to run a little quicker has no chance in AIX as it has become a money class with no end in sight. Something needs to be done as this class will die. A simple solution would be to add 500lbs to a "compressed" car. There is a class for big money cars, its called Super Unlimited so lets bring AIX back to the intention of the class and level the playing field so we can all get back to racing for fun and not seeing who can spend the most money, get the most sponsors or do the most development on engines that were never intended to be used in a grassroots series. Just my two cents

 

Where were you the whole time I was running NA?

 

You claim to be the 2008 West champ then show up and race, that's what I say..

 

Hard work, preparation, dedication are just some of thie things it takes to win be it working on the car or working on getting sponsorship or your physical and mental fitness..Finding excuses will get you nowhere.

 

There's nothing wrong with losing as long as you give it your best shot and you come back stronger. Fight on.

Posted

It is called exteme for a reason. There are enough classes for Mustangs, CMC, AI, AIX, PT -something. Choose a class and deal with it.

Posted
It is called exteme for a reason. There are enough classes for Mustangs, CMC, AI, AIX, PT -something. Choose a class and deal with it.

 

Wow....that will certainly make people want to join the AIX or NASA ranks....

 

 

I tend to agree that AIX is getting out of control....mostly because of the GAP being created for AI to grow into. the age of the $100k AI car is upon us and personally, I think that's the reason AI car counts have dwindled and CMC-2 is booming!

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing AIX have a n/a only requirement and maybe even a cubic inch max of say 357 cubes.... if you want 900rwhp and a turbo, go to SU with the rest of the insanity.

 

again, just my $0.02.....which is usually worthless!

Posted

I think that the way AIX is now, it is expensive, but is honestly just fine. If you want to go a little faster, you could go from AI to ST2. That allow you a faster car while not being too nutty. If thats too slow, ST1. If you think that one is too slow then the two "ground-pounder" classes (AIX/SU) are the place for you. Sure in super touring you face cars other than pony cars, but who cares, your running a potentially faster car than in AI.

 

People with money are always going to try to find ways to go faster that may not be feasible for the "underfunded" (like me haha), the only way to get away from it is to ignore it. Even spec miata has people buying 2 cars and testing them at different tracks to find out which car works for a particular track. Only by either choosing to remain ignorant of the situation or seeking better funding can you help this. Thats just the way it is. Atleast from what I've seen anyway.

Posted

My opinion is that BOTH AI and AIX are getting out of control, cost-wise, for what they are.

 

There are numerous cost-saving measures that could be done to AI, but generally none of them will ever happen because if even one person is already outside of that rule, they'll yell, scream, and whine so loud that the rule will not go into place. And AIX is no different.

 

Of course, there will always be people who spend more than the guy next to them. But rules can be made so all that extra money buys them only 0.1 sec of lap time, rather than 0.5 sec of lap time, for example. Narrowing the field, and making the class approachable to HPDE'ers is the key to keeping car counts up, but right now it's CMC that seems to be doing a better job of that. Too bad my car was far too modified to go to CMC.

 

I'm stepping down to AI from AIX because I can't possibly afford to spend what the front-runners in AIX are spending, in terms of time and money. But it's discouraging that even AI is becoming massively expensive to be competetive. We have AI cars in the wind tunnel, on the 7-post, using $6000 shocks, etc. etc. I guess it all depends on how seriously you interpret the "Nasa Pro Racing" name.

Posted

TJ, chime in any time and let us know how your $25,000 car is as competative as any in AI Midwest. I have also seen $100,000 AI cars NOT be competative. The driver still matters. The engineers in Detroit will have you think otherwise (18" wheels, 05 Mustang class killer etc). It is still power to weight and driving ability. So many times we get hung up on the $$$ and forget the fundamentals.

 

Sorry about the comment about 'dealing with it', but when the first sentences in the rules of the class mention unlimited engines, you have to assume some day ridiculous hp will happen. Capping AIX was tried 3 years ago. It is too late now and having an additional class in between AI & AIX is ridiclous. AI is more competative than Spec Miata. Look at the top 10 fastest lap times from 08 Nat's from each class. Any racing will always have people spending 3-4 times as much as the next guy. The trick is to spend the money in the right spots, or as Roco mentioned, get help from sponsors.

Posted
TJ, chime in any time and let us know how your $25,000 car is as competative as any in AI Midwest. I have also seen $100,000 AI cars NOT be competative. The driver still matters. The engineers in Detroit will have you think otherwise (18" wheels, 05 Mustang class killer etc). It is still power to weight and driving ability. So many times we get hung up on the $$$ and forget the fundamentals.

 

You're pulling me into every thread lately

 

AI cars shouldn't be insanely expensive. It can be done, but that's because people pick up the phone and order the entire catalog. You can do it for cheap if you build your own parts. A lot of the aftermarket parts out there are someone's catalog part that's put together into a nice box or a bunch of tubes someone welded together and calls a race part.

 

I used to bitch as much as anyone about the money spent in AI, but then I figured out I could build my own stuff and go just as fast for less money. My car isn't a class killer and never will be, but it's competitive and it's within my budget.

 

The biggest thing I see that baffles me about AI is the fixation with calling up a catalog and buying tubular A-arms. Are they really worth the money? It's still some delrin/poly/etc bushings and a ball joint built to stock specs (has anyone really measured?), isn't it? What's wrong with a stock arm with some bushings pressed into it? Is it really THAT much heavier? I'll take my stock, stamped arms with a little more crashworthiness (huh?).

 

For as much as everyone complains about the cost of the cars, if you ran fresh, shaved tires at every weekend, that'd make you a lot faster then buying the next unobtainium part.

Posted
TJ, chime in any time and let us know how your $25,000 car is as competative as any in AI Midwest. I have also seen $100,000 AI cars NOT be competative. The driver still matters. The engineers in Detroit will have you think otherwise (18" wheels, 05 Mustang class killer etc). It is still power to weight and driving ability. So many times we get hung up on the $$$ and forget the fundamentals.

 

You're pulling me into every thread lately

 

AI cars shouldn't be insanely expensive. It can be done, but that's because people pick up the phone and order the entire catalog. You can do it for cheap if you build your own parts. A lot of the aftermarket parts out there are someone's catalog part that's put together into a nice box or a bunch of tubes someone welded together and calls a race part.

 

I used to bitch as much as anyone about the money spent in AI, but then I figured out I could build my own stuff and go just as fast for less money. My car isn't a class killer and never will be, but it's competitive and it's within my budget.

 

The biggest thing I see that baffles me about AI is the fixation with calling up a catalog and buying tubular A-arms. Are they really worth the money? It's still some delrin/poly/etc bushings and a ball joint built to stock specs (has anyone really measured?), isn't it? What's wrong with a stock arm with some bushings pressed into it? Is it really THAT much heavier? I'll take my stock, stamped arms with a little more crashworthiness (huh?).

 

For as much as everyone complains about the cost of the cars, if you ran fresh, shaved tires at every weekend, that'd make you a lot faster then buying the next unobtainium part.

 

Lets be fair. Being able to make your own quality parts is as big an advantage as having the money to buy the entire catalog. Its just different. As many guys as there are that can't afford to buy competitive gear, there are as many or more that can't design and build their own components.

Posted
So explain 3 seconds.......

 

That's harder to explain, but if you look at the car and notice the attention to detail that was spent to maximize the car to the limit of the rules, you'll see quite a bit of it.

 

Lets be fair. Being able to make your own quality parts is as big an advantage as having the money to buy the entire catalog. Its just different. As many guys as there are that can't afford to buy competitive gear, there are as many or more that can't design and build their own components.

 

Making quality parts isn't about having awesome fab talent. It's about being able to read a tape measure and having some ingenuity. Nothing I've made is as polished as something I could've bought, but it works as well and didn't cost as much.

Posted

I think the fact remains that making our own components just doesnt make sense for most of us. Good for you that you can do it. To suggest that most should, though, doesn't seem realistic.

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