official ai/aix nationals update page

[Pat L.]

Ruh Roh... just looked at data from the start of Friday's race vs. the start of Sunday's race.

 

The speed difference at the green flag was...

 

...

 

...

 

 

5mph (50.1 vs 55).

 

The real change between Friday and Sunday's start was the rate at which I accelerated up to the starting speed and I'm going to do the most political thing I can here: pass the buck to the pace car driver for going too slow and staying on track too long. Actually he was driving at the right speed, but he needed to hand over the reigns a little sooner.

 

Dave, really sorry you got hung out. My guy is still getting the video put together, but from what I saw out my rearward-facing camera was that you were right on Matt's bumper, however, when he accelerated you didn't. Not sure what happened there, but Matt managed a really hard run down to T1 along with Ross, but you fell back roughly 5-7 car lengths. Again, I feel really bad for you since you were doing great all weekend. Tommy, you actually started a nose ahead of me and I stabbed the throttle a little right before the green to get back even to you.

 

Anyways, in an effort to start a little north of the thurs/friday starts I botched it for some of you and I'm really sorry.

 

BTW, Dean if you're reading this, I still haven't gotten that check... give me a shout so we can double-check the addy

[Aaron B]

NASA is a great series I still love running with them and will for a long time to come..but sometimes thing like a botched start can happen and all the meetings in the world can not prevent this, it is part of the 1 big race with multi classes on the track deal- if one of a few groups get messed up and the officials recognize it on time it is still almost impossible to reset all fields,gaps,etc for a full restart- in 2006 at Mid O when I was a CMC driver we had meeting after meeting with all of us getting beat over the head with sticks and other implements of destruction and told if we get out of line on the start, pull some funny stuff or generally cause mayhem for our own benefit there will be no hesitation to pull out the black and red for a full restart...fast forward to the start of the race, AI starts on the long straight, CMC standing on the front straight- we planned on getting the green when the last car went thru turn 7 at the end of the long back straight......we got the go as AI was heading thru keyhole, needles to say we caught them as they were exiting the keyhole we were full throttle....they were 35mph and had not received the green..oh boy..needless to say I assumed this easily qualified in that restart category and along with a few others up front I backed off and watched the last third of the field overtake and run thru the AI field like soldiers running through the trees....not to mention I am old and scared! long story short I go from pole to 20th in half a lap while our crew chief is briefing a NASA official on pit road before we even get around to the finish line, only to be told NO RESTART..NO RESTART- RACE - it happens in every race series amateur and pro alike and falls into the lessons learned category, always look out for #1 -

[King Matt]

I backed off and watched the last third of the field overtake and run thru the AI field like soldiers running through the trees....

I was in that race too and that's a very accurate description. Or as I described it, the eventual race winner, who started dead last, passed me "like I was chained to a post."

 

It is a hazard of multi-class racing. Standing starts are no sure thing either, especially if there will be start judges watching EACH row of the grid, which there should be. In pro classes that use them, there is ZERO tolerance for any movement once the grid is set, regardless of whether someone might deem it an advantage. In other words, even if you roll backwards, or lurch a little putting your car in gear, that's a jump start.

[ST#97]

I backed off and watched the last third of the field overtake and run thru the AI field like soldiers running through the trees....

I was in that race too and that's a very accurate description. Or as I described it, the eventual race winner, who started dead last, passed me "like I was chained to a post."

 

I seem to remember Covini leading AI in that race for a brief moment...according to the announcer!

[tacovini]

Here's a pic of the flying start grid as they passed S/F.

 

 

...and the following 50 pics after this one are the 1st lap of mayhem!!! Great heads up racing guys!

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/TexasCMC3/2009NASANationalChampionships02?feat=directlink#5381689744468592994" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ST#97]

Here's a pic of the flying start grid as they passed S/F.

 

 

...and the following 50 pics after this one are the 1st lap of mayhem!!! Great heads up racing guys!

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/TexasCMC3/2009NASANationalChampionships02?feat=directlink#5381689744468592994" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Wow! In frame 33, Rusty, Dean and others aren't even visable...then in 44, they are passing Ross turning into T1? Now I understand Dave's comments. They must have hit the loud pedal leaving release and never let off. Damn glad I didn't get drilled from behind by some bonsai move! Jumpin' the start is an understatement for those guys in the back! WOW!!! Lots of folks trying to win the long race in T1....amazing dean's car didn't look like it did at the end of the race in T1 Lap 1...?!

Standing starts please.

[D Algozine]

Not that it matters , but I've been through all 12 steps and I've learned to live with it. Meaning, I know it's time to let it go and move on. However, I really don't want to see this or any other problems next year.

I have been trying to figure out all of the events that happened at the start. My view, Tommy lagged behind, as Pat accelerated out of the last turn, and then bolted to catch up, Matt did the same, and I couldn't catch up until they did. I was in second gear and speed up quickly as my line moved up. Just as I got back to Matt I was out of rpm's for the start. I upshifted to third, then had to slow quickly. Just as I reached to down shift the green came out. I was caught with my foot off the gas and had to down shift to second for few seconds then back to third. All of this happened in a few seconds, but it felt like for ever as the field behind was able to stay on the gas the whole time. It appears that I was the cut off for cars that had to slow just prior to the green. Guys ahead had made their speed adjustments and were ready to go. Guys behind me never had to lift. I know, that's racing. As most of you know, it was a lot of work to earn a desent starting position, especially with such a talented AI group this year, so it's pretty tough to watch it all go down the toliet in just a few seconds.

[Tommy55]

Talk about watching it go down the toilet.

[D Algozine]

Talk about watching it go down the toilet.

 

Yah, I know you and couple others had some real bad times. What are the chances that the three fastest guys end up not finishing?

[pederb]

We need more pictures

[Pat L.]

I'm just waiting for the video of Ernesto singing to his car

[RWinchester199]

the games played on rolling starts are part of every racing series that uses them. Patrick did what he needed to do to give his car the best shot at making it to turn one first. i think everyone knew he had a low powered light car so it was no surprise he was going fast at the start thats what his car needed. anyone who says they wouldnt do the exact same thing is probably a little salty because they didnt get a good start (understandable). the reason the back of the pack got a good jump myself included is because we had to come out of the corner and catch up so we never had to lift.

 

standing starts are not a good idea for our class, i dont have to money to replace fenders because someone will spin the tires or stall the car and cause a pile up. the rolling start works just fine most of the time.

[RWinchester199]

Dean, Rusty, and myself all ran on the dyno on tuesday and were all legal and then it spun 20hp higher thats why the dyno was in question. then we ran it again and it was right on so there was no explanation as to why there was one pull 20 hp higher than the rest. but thats life and rules are rules.

[Ernesto Roco]

I'm just waiting for the video of Ernesto singing to his car

 

There were no cameras around when I was performing, so no you nor anyone will ever see that gem lol

 

I did learn though that Pat is a rapping talen t after a few beers, man forget the driving get a record contract, geezz lol

[ST#97]

 

standing starts are not a good idea for our class, i dont have to money to replace fenders because someone will spin the tires or stall the car and cause a pile up. the rolling start works just fine most of the time.

 

TX region has been doing them for 5 years with combined and inverted groups of 20+ cars and rarely, if ever, have contact.

 

I agree, rolling starts have "strategy" in other series....they also have penalties for passing prior to the start finish line. Something we need to add to our CCR's...

[RWinchester199]

if we are going to run standing starts at the nationals every region should use them during the season as the midwest and great lakes didnt have any all year.

 

as for the passing before start finish we were told that it was acceptable in the drivers meeting. it just so happened with the accordian effect the back never had to lift and got an unreal advantage because of it. i agree it was screwed up but the race isnt won on the start.

[gbrown8439]

Dean, Rusty, and myself all ran on the dyno on tuesday and were all legal and then it spun 20hp higher thats why the dyno was in question. then we ran it again and it was right on so there was no explanation as to why there was one pull 20 hp higher than the rest. but thats life and rules are rules.

 

If I remember correctly you had a new motor so it was no surprise your dyno was a little high the second time around. I believe your Dad was the one that thought you should double check once the motor had some miles on it.

Very smart on his part.

 

I believe we figured out why Dean had an issue. I'll let him tell you if he didn't already.

 

The Dyno is pretty consistent.

Peoples tunes on their cars are not. Every issue we saw was traced back to peoples tunes or some other issue with their car.

 

BTW, thanks to everyone for making our weekend worth the almost 4000 mile trip. It was great to meet so many new people that have the same interests.

[Ed M.]

TX region has been doing them for 5 years with combined and inverted groups of 20+ cars and rarely, if ever, have contact.

That's funny because we used to do them in the SE and we experienced just the opposite. It seemed that somebody always ended up smashed up and it really got to be a problem. Lot's of carnage for nothing. We quit doing them about two years ago and don't plan on doing them again anytime soon.

 

Rolling starts may not always work in your favor but you at least get a chance to hopefully get through the whole race. If you don't get a good start, you at least get a chance to maybe make it up during the race. Standing starts just put you in a much better situation to either run into someone or get run into.... right at the start. At our level of racing where most of us are paying our own way, why risk it? I've done lots of standing starts and have never had issues but I've also seen a lot of carnage and have had some close calls. After all the time and money spent, the building and prep of your car, and all the other stuff, IMO it's not worth putting so much on the line with standing starts. But thats just me...

 

Ed

[robbodleimages]

That's funny because we used to do them in the SE and we experienced just the opposite. It seemed that somebody always ended up smashed up and it really got to be a problem. Lot's of carnage for nothing. We quit doing them about two years ago and don't plan on doing them again anytime soon.

 

Rolling starts may not always work in your favor but you at least get a chance to hopefully get through the whole race. If you don't get a good start, you at least get a chance to maybe make it up during the race. Standing starts just put you in a much better situation to either run into someone or get run into.... right at the start. At our level of racing where most of us are paying our own way, why risk it? I've done lots of standing starts and have never had issues but I've also seen a lot of carnage and have had some close calls. After all the time and money spent, the building and prep of your car, and all the other stuff, IMO it's not worth putting so much on the line with standing starts. But thats just me...

 

Ed

 

This

[RWinchester199]

Greg, yea i know what the problem was i was just clarifying that we made pulls before the weekend and things changed. i knew my car would. but Deans car we didnt think would. although after it was figured out it makes sense. didnt mean to say the dyno was incorrect just that initially that was why it was questioned. btw thanks for allowing us soo much time on the dyno it really helped us. what was there like 700 pulls total thats insane.

[gbrown8439]

Greg, yea i know what the problem was i was just clarifying that we made pulls before the weekend and things changed. i knew my car would. but Deans car we didnt think would. although after it was figured out it makes sense. didnt mean to say the dyno was incorrect just that initially that was why it was questioned. btw thanks for allowing us soo much time on the dyno it really helped us. what was there like 700 pulls total thats insane.

 

Sorry Ryan, I am just a little sensitive to people saying the dyno is wrong.

After a week of dyno pulls we heard everything from "that's exactly what I saw at home" to " that can't be right". Once we had a chance to talk to people we were able to sort things out and had an awesome week.

The only thing that could have made it better would have been having my car done and getting to race with all of you.

See you at Putnam??

[RWinchester199]

Greg, understandable. there were a lot of people complaining about a lot of things out there, myself included. after all was said and done i think it went pretty well. are you making the trip to putnam with the aix car?

[Pat L.]

Standing starts are cool... for the fans. Some other issues arrise with standing starts outside the obvious risk of carnage: they require more officials to set the grid (on track) and to police the cars that might roll prior to the green being shown. Then how do you address a car that rolls? Stop and go like in World Challenge?

[ST#97]

Standing starts are cool... for the fans. Some other issues arrise with standing starts outside the obvious risk of carnage: they require more officials to set the grid (on track) and to police the cars that might roll prior to the green being shown. Then how do you address a car that rolls? Stop and go like in World Challenge?

 

That's a crock man! CMC/2 did it all week without incident and only 2 officials with nearly as many cars as we had. And yes, they had a drive through for a car that crept.

 

Frankly, carnage, regardless of type of start, 99% of the time comes down to some overzealus driver trying to go from last to first in the first turn because they know they don't have the skills/car to do it during the race. that's a big risk you are taking to the others that have worked so hard all week to make the LONG race on Sunday.

 

The talent level in this group can handle a standing start I'm sure....it's the decisions after the green flag flies is what makes the difference.

 

<---still holds hand in air for standing starts!

[King Matt]

It's not a crock at all. One of the most egregious jumped standing starts in the history of NASA (or any other series!) was committed by a CMC national "champion" at the 2006 Nationals and no one in charge on pit wall did a damn thing about it, probably because no one was looking. But photos and video clearly showed it after the fact. The guy was pulled out of line and alongside the car ahead of him before the lights were even off. Pat is right that standing starts need to be policed. Actually, so do rolling starts. For some reason nobody seems to think that start judges are needed for rolling starts, but as this year's Nationals proved, they can be screwed up pretty bad too.