ff2skip Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 We are going to try and hammer out most of the issues in question this weekend if possible. This effort is appreciated. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 We are going to try and hammer out most of the issues in question this weekend if possible. Any preview of major rules changes being worked out? I know the potential suspension classification changes generated a lot of chatter late in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 pure speculation - but - based on what I'm seeing from other classes there might be a pretty big backup at the National Office or something as just about every class is clamoring for their 2010 rulesets, even ones much less complex than the TT/PT/ST stuff... someone like Greg, Shawn, or JWL / someone from Nat'l Office would know for sure where TT, PT, and ST stand in the approval process. Its much more complicated than Greg getting the changes decided upon my the commitee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 We are going to try and hammer out most of the issues in question this weekend if possible. Any preview of major rules changes being worked out? I know the potential suspension classification changes generated a lot of chatter late in the year. Greg and I spent the better part of 12 straight hours in a kozy hotel room going over all the emails that were submitted throughout the year. We researched them all and either incorporated them into existing rules or threw them out. I dont recall any NEW rules being added. I do recall clarifying alot of existing rules. We also added some modifications to existing rules so that you get to do more for that 1 point. Stuff like that. I recall 1 rule we added an "S" to the rule to clarify more than one is legal. (fuel pumps I think.) The new (updated and clarified really) rules were approved by John Lindsey at the track the next day. The hold up currently is that im trying to get some info back on some tire data question that im curently involved with researching. (I have all the tire manufactures engineers on speed dial!) Then its a matter of the big cheeze giving his nod and then we can post them online for everyone. Were hoping for a release date very soon but were going to be patient in the event there are questions that need clarifying before the rules can go public. As soon as I know, you will know! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 good to hear Shawn would it be possible to "leak" some of the expected changes. I know shocks was one of the hot buttons earlier this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted November 18, 2009 Members Share Posted November 18, 2009 good to hear Shawn would it be possible to "leak" some of the expected changes. I know shocks was one of the hot buttons earlier this year... I cant find my notebook... been on the road this week, 6 track events in 8 days. I think its better to just have everyone read them for themselves when they come out. Anticipation is making you wait!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ken If your shocks are leaking may I suggest a rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 buuuttt I wanna uppppgrade. Whaaaaaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesL Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Here's a question Ive been wondering for a while... The argument for non DOT legal tires being +30 pts instead of a more "reasonable" number, is that they can be 3+ seconds faster per lap than the fastest DOT legal tires(Hoosiers, Hankooks, etc). If that sort of lap time difference is worth 20 pts, why are the 2nd tier DOT Rcomps (R888s, NT01s, etc) only 3 pts behind the Hoosiers/Hankooks/etc? They are a solid 3+ seconds slower than the +10pt tires... yet their similar difference(compared to the non DOT legal slicks) in lap time is assessed completely differently. Unfortunately, this sort of begs the question "why would anyone ever run a +7pt "2nd tier" DOT Rcomp tire"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 Here's a question Ive been wondering for a while... The argument for non DOT legal tires being +30 pts instead of a more "reasonable" number, is that they can be 3+ seconds faster per lap than the fastest DOT legal tires(Hoosiers, Hankooks, etc). If that sort of lap time difference is worth 20 pts, why are the 2nd tier DOT Rcomps (R888s, NT01s, etc) only 3 pts behind the Hoosiers/Hankooks/etc? They are a solid 3+ seconds slower than the +10pt tires... yet their similar difference(compared to the non DOT legal slicks) in lap time is assessed completely differently. Unfortunately, this sort of begs the question "why would anyone ever run a +7pt "2nd tier" DOT Rcomp tire"??? The gains of a slick are potential gains with the right suspension. Weve done tests with a poorly setup car and there were no gains to be seen as well as a dialed in setup gain 4+ seconds a lap right out of the box. That and the cost of slicks compared to their tiny expected life span makes a DOT tire more affordable for everyone involved. Stay tuned for the rules to come out. There will be some numbers changed for some tires. The reason why someone would run a "lesser" tire is points. Some tires are known to not give the same ultimate grip as others. Thats how tire points are assessed. That doesnt mean you cant go fast on a 7 point tire. You absolutely can. if you are close on points from bumping up to another class, a lesser points tire gives you the option to be able to stay in class and not run on a street tire. At least, I think thats what your asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor57 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ra1s are not 3 seconds slower than R6s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 .....Greg and I spent the better part of 12 straight hours in a kozy hotel room ..... Yep that is who I would kozy up to in a hotel room . Thanks for all you guys do - I probably will not agree with all the rules or changes - but I will respect and enforce them. And look forward to seeing what the new ones are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesL Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Here's a question Ive been wondering for a while... The argument for non DOT legal tires being +30 pts instead of a more "reasonable" number, is that they can be 3+ seconds faster per lap than the fastest DOT legal tires(Hoosiers, Hankooks, etc). If that sort of lap time difference is worth 20 pts, why are the 2nd tier DOT Rcomps (R888s, NT01s, etc) only 3 pts behind the Hoosiers/Hankooks/etc? They are a solid 3+ seconds slower than the +10pt tires... yet their similar difference(compared to the non DOT legal slicks) in lap time is assessed completely differently. Unfortunately, this sort of begs the question "why would anyone ever run a +7pt "2nd tier" DOT Rcomp tire"??? The gains of a slick are potential gains with the right suspension. Weve done tests with a poorly setup car and there were no gains to be seen as well as a dialed in setup gain 4+ seconds a lap right out of the box. That and the cost of slicks compared to their tiny expected life span makes a DOT tire more affordable for everyone involved. Stay tuned for the rules to come out. There will be some numbers changed for some tires. The reason why someone would run a "lesser" tire is points. Some tires are known to not give the same ultimate grip as others. Thats how tire points are assessed. That doesnt mean you cant go fast on a 7 point tire. You absolutely can. if you are close on points from bumping up to another class, a lesser points tire gives you the option to be able to stay in class and not run on a street tire. At least, I think thats what your asking. Thanks for responding... I guess my question is, why would anyone choose to run a X width +7pt tire instead of a X-10mm(or X-20mm) +10pt tire, if staying within a given point range is the ultimate goal. From the results I have seen, for example, a 225 Hoosier A6 is still going to be faster than a 235(or even 245) R888. But I suppose it may depend on the type of car, drivetrain, weight, etc. Perhaps Im wrong. I will certainly keep my eyes open for the new rules if the tire #s are changing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 ....Thanks for responding... I guess my question is, why would anyone choose to run a X width +7pt tire instead of a X-10mm(or X-20mm) +10pt tire, if staying within a given point range is the ultimate goal. From the results I have seen, for example, a 225 Hoosier A6 is still going to be faster than a 235(or even 245) R888. But I suppose it may depend on the type of car, drivetrain, weight, etc. Perhaps Im wrong. I will certainly keep my eyes open for the new rules if the tire #s are changing! Yep the new base tire for TTB will be 295 and TTA will be 315 at least those with heavy cars hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niles Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 RE: DOT's vs Slicks viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29047 There are GTS guys who are crossing over from other series where they can run slicks. There are guys that have run them both. From the discussion on this board and some others my understanding is that something like an R100 holds up better throughout the length of a race, may or may not be slightly quicker than the fastest DOT's for a single lap (ie time trial) and can remain competitive for a greater number of heat cycles. I have never run a true slick so I can't comment personally. The point where the discussion of how to equalize DOT's and slicks breaks down is when we realize that there has been very limited testing. Out of curiosity as I prepare for next season and an eventual move to GTS if there is data concerning the outright speed of slicks vs DOT's I'd be excited to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Personally I think the 30 point hit is right I went from a new Hankook which I think is better that a Hoosier to a 5 cycle old Yokohama slick and in the morning warm-up was over 2.5 sec. quicker before I even got comfortable with the grip level. That's with no aero aid, Sears Point . And I know they go the distance for a race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted November 22, 2009 Members Share Posted November 22, 2009 RE: DOT's vs Slicks viewtopic.php?f=44&t=29047 There are GTS guys who are crossing over from other series where they can run slicks. There are guys that have run them both. From the discussion on this board and some others my understanding is that something like an R100 holds up better throughout the length of a race, may or may not be slightly quicker than the fastest DOT's for a single lap (ie time trial) and can remain competitive for a greater number of heat cycles. I have never run a true slick so I can't comment personally. The point where the discussion of how to equalize DOT's and slicks breaks down is when we realize that there has been very limited testing. Out of curiosity as I prepare for next season and an eventual move to GTS if there is data concerning the outright speed of slicks vs DOT's I'd be excited to see it. Were not trying to equalize DOT's -VS- Slicks but rather, assign a fair points value to them. I believe we have achieved that. FWIW, your free to do all the tire testing you wish. We already have done alot of research, both on track and thru other sources who test/uses tires in regards to a Time Trial format. With their data, we came up with the numbers for the tires which we believe is fair with the intent of keeping competition fair and affordable for everyone. It will again come down to who uses their mod points the wisest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ....Thanks for responding... I guess my question is, why would anyone choose to run a X width +7pt tire instead of a X-10mm(or X-20mm) +10pt tire, if staying within a given point range is the ultimate goal. From the results I have seen, for example, a 225 Hoosier A6 is still going to be faster than a 235(or even 245) R888. But I suppose it may depend on the type of car, drivetrain, weight, etc. Perhaps Im wrong. I will certainly keep my eyes open for the new rules if the tire #s are changing! Yep the new base tire for TTB will be 295 and TTA will be 315 at least those with heavy cars hope so Yes, we do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 hey are the rules likely to be out b4 dec5th? If the tire rules are changing i might need to use up some inventory at Road Atlanta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 hey are the rules likely to be out b4 dec5th?If the tire rules are changing i might need to use up some inventory at Road Atlanta! We dont have a date yet but they could come back sooner... or later. It just depends. Id use up any A6's or C91's you might have, if I were you....... Thats all I can say for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Id use up any A6's or C91's you might have, if I were you....... Thats all I can say for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZELISE Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 We dont have a date yet but they could come back sooner... or later. It just depends. Id use up any A6's or C91's you might have, if I were you....... Thats all I can say for now. How about just publishing the tire rules. Some of us have contingency credits with Hoosier and it would be nice to know the points difference between R6 and A6 so we can make an informed decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 at least by Dec 15th or so (I think that's the last turn in date) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor57 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Exactly. I JUST received a bunch of Hoosiers, and It would have been nice to know about any major tire changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Exactly. I JUST received a bunch of Hoosiers, and It would have been nice to know about any major tire changes. same here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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