Shifters

[greg f]

Is the group against using the commonly available short shift kits? Most of us up here run the GPR kit that mounts on the transmission to reduce the long, sloppy action of the O.E. part.

I would also like to ask the group to consider allowing the optional front leg protection bars that SCCA allows. We will not build a 944 without them as it is a classic designed unibody that really should have some protection from front wheel intrusion. This is especially true when the cage is a bolt in variety that usually places the A pillar-bar pretty far back to clear the dash. The two bars are cheap to add, do not help with overall chassis ridgidity and really do work in the event of a hard front 3/4 collision.

When the rules state " stock radiator " can we be creative and assume that means the 951 p/n stock radiator is also allowed? They cost only a little more and eliminate running hot. I would think this would be more of a problem in the SW and AZ than here in the frigid north, but Portland can get pretty hot in July.

 

Let me know...... Greg F

[Tim Comeau]

"...can we be creative and assume..."

Man, I can feel the hairs standing up on the back off my neck.......LOL!

 

Somebody else take this one.

 

I'm going to go take STOCKof my liquor cabinet, stuff some STOCK-ings, then call my STOCK broker.

You guys have a great holiday. Be safe! We need all you 944 drivers back for 2005.

 

I'm with you on the cage thing, Greg. I pushed for the option of welding the cage to the A & B pillars for safety also. It's an add-on that doesn't cost much, but adds alot to safety.

[AZ Coupe Jason]

Ok Greg!

 

Tim and Joe are a little over zealous with the rules, well I am aswell. First off let me say this the gentlemen that wrote the rules left allot of room for inturpetation. But as the old founder said and lived and died by "If it doesnt Say you can then you cant"

 

I will tell you that there are certian people that are a series director somewhere that have a short shift kit! Honestly as a whole we are far more worried about reliabilty and performance features! 1- stay with in the rules on engine mods 2- stay with in the rules on Suspension Mods 3- be smart.

 

There is a large number of people here in AZ that built there cars on a set of rules that where never in place for this series and still currently have not fixed them (IE Flywheels) - I hoping that the AZ director is going to spur this in the head ASAP - the old series director did not properly handle this situation last year and needs to be addressed.

 

As for the saftey adds I think that the rules should use our current saftey guidlines as a start and allow adds - and just to air out some frustration cause it seems to be a theme to my post - I would also like to see use go to non - LSD, yes you read me right! NON LSD, this should have never been allowed and the cost of one is retarded, they are pulling over 1500 or more in AZ now, 3 years ago you could get one for $400, but due to such a limited production they are getting near impossible to find! Why dont we all save our money and just use a simple std transmission! IMHO!

 

Well dude the Short shifter is used allot here, not by me, as a former NASA AZ owner my car is and had to be 100% legal. But I dont think anyone should fret about you having such a item.

 

As for the group it is getting near time to revisit and do some much needed updating to the rules. With the goal to keep cost at a minimum for all 944-Spec Racing!

 

Merry Christmas ALL

 

Jason

[greg f]

Hey, I was told that in NASA STOCK means the part was in stock when it was purchased.... In racing you can go by the " easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission" or you can save time and frustration by understanding the lay of the land first. Greg F

[944-Spec#94]

Greg. No need for 951 radiators. We race in 100F temps and stock (real stock) work just fine. When was the last time you raced a 944 in 105F temps!

 

 

As for the safety bars. I would support a move to allow the two extra bars you speak of. Safety impact is siginficant and performance impact is minimal.

 

I disagree with Tim on the Cages welded to to the A & B pillers fevorishly. I firmly believe that the safety gains are small, but the chassis rigidity gains are significant. I can't say for sure if those gains will make anyone faster, but they are a clear percieved advantage that make everyone spend more. Hey some folks say the 944 chassis is flexible, other say it is stiff. Well well all will agree that stiffer = better and in my mind welding cage to A & B pillers = a significantly stiffer chassis ergo advantage.

 

 

As for the short shifters I perfer to keep them stock. It in my mind is not a big deal either way, but think stock should be in the rules and that is it.

 

Jason,

I have never seen nor heard of short shifters in any 944-spec cars. Your hints at someone doing this, but not stating names are not good for series and you know where we have been with things. I would advise you confront the person(s) you believe to have short shift and or let series directors deal with it. Really checking for a short shift is pretty easy so it should not be hard to get to the bottom it. PM Me if you want to discuss futher.

 

As for LSD's.... Well you are probably right. We should have said NO to all. Well it did not happen and it is too late now. I can say that while an LSD is an advantage lack of one will not keep you from running in front. I don't have an LSD. At AMP I noticed that I never had wheelspin and therefore it would not have provided much of an advantage. At PIR I can get wheel spin coming out of turn 7 and well it may be cost me a little, but in the end not much. You have seen the lap times I run there and they are still quite stong. I trully believe the perception of and LSD is much more powerfull than the unit itself. Sure I'd love one, but it not the first thing on my priotity list.

 

PS... Steve did update the rules Here is a link

http://www.nasa-arizona.com/944/Rules.htm

[Tim Comeau]

Greg, that was pretty well put and pretty damn funny! I hadn't heard that one. Must be an SCCA thing.

It's much better, in our class, to ask first.

I've found that new guys will ask a series of, "Can I do this..." questions. After about the 4th question that I say "No" to, with an explanation, they realize the value of our class philosophy and they understand it's there to protect them from the other guy winning because he has a better car. Then, one of 2 things happen. Either they stick their fat wallet back in their pocket, turn around and walk away, OR, they say, "Great! I'm in."

Don't get me wrong, this isn't only a poor man's class. But poor guys can get into this class too!

 

 

It's ok that Joe and I disagree on the pillar welding thing. If it's a good enough idea, more people would get behind it. (I don't think it would cost but a few hours in labor and some small brackets.)

 

It's also true that some things in the rules have progressed too far to reverse. Like LSD's. Even so, our class is still one of the cheapest out there. My 924S still doesn't have an LSD.

 

Now, on the short shifter thing........That is flat illegal. That unit provides a performance advantage over the stock unit because of quicker shifting. You can't support that modification with reasons of safety, easthetics, ease of maintenance, reliability, etc. Buy a fresh stock unit.

[AZ Coupe Jason]

Ok tim,

 

In Christmas sprit I am going to stay nice

 

1- no changes should have occured without a discussion - with Dan Webb now out of the picture - there is no dictator - Steve was also put in place by Dan for AZ. Although I think Steve is a great person to have running AZ 944-Spec. We should have a group phone call or regional meeting to discuss changes - or elect someone head of 944, that person at this time is truly Joe Vacarro, Joe bought "ALL Interest of Dan Webb ownership which included 944 spec and NASA AZ"

 

2- The Electrical cut off was not required in the last set of rules was it?

 

3- I saw no section regarding the battery

 

4- Also with the Flywheel, you guys really messed up! I agree that a 200lbs ruling was a little harsh, but 50lbs is nothing! Glen Gormleys car is over 100 over what the min wieght. and he is fast as hell! So I think a 100 lbs rating is fair.

 

5- Also we in AZ have not wieghed our cars since Jan. of 04 at AMP. So with that what does a wieght pen. really mean?

 

Sorry do not mean to be a butt about this, but we (all 944 racers) really should have discussed this, before ANY changes where made!!!

[greg f]

Hmmmm... I hadn't really thought of the short shift as a performance enhancement. The old Audi gearbox can only be shifted so fast with out ruining it. It was more for us lazy old farts that are too tired to move the lever that far, and that many times a lap! Stock one works fine otherwise.

Merry Christmas all, and to all a good lap. Greg F

[Spec-944#70]

Jason you bring up a good point. Rather than get upset after the rules are changed maybe "we" as a group should discuss it. There were some changes that didn't need to happen and then some other changes that should be rewritten. So who is actually in charge? I know TC is So. Cal Dir and Steve S is in AZ. But who is making the dicisions for all of us?

So are the 2005 rules posted in Joe P's web site official now? Or are we going to tweak some more?

[uberklasse]

the car I jsut bought from Nor Cal has the front bar across the front and I think it only is for safety and should be allowed!

[944-Spec#94]

Jason,

A dash bar is fully legal per the rules right now (these are some times called knee bars). They require no added cage to chassis attachments.

 

Jason,

I feel confident that Steve and Tim have the best interest of series at heart and trust their decisions. The rules that were updated were mostly things bring 944-spec in line with or racing orgs (PCA, SCCA, POC) on things like saftey and such and realtivly minor things. I personally don't give a darn about flywheels. If it brings more drivers in to the series since a similar group allows them fine. It will NOT make the difference between winning and losing on the track. (50 lbs or not)