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American Iron - State of the Union


tacovini

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Jeff, with all suspension parts being open in AI, sounds like you limited yourself to the stock spindle. There are companies out there, like Racecraft for instance, that are building aftermarket spindles to whatever you want. I love my drop spindles and they are holding up fantastic. If a "proper Race quality" 14 kit is going to cost $4000 (see brembo add in Grassroots..LOL), sounds like it would be beneficial to build a control arm and spindle to put a $900 2000R brembo kit on the car. Afterall, you say the 13's are an advantage right?!

 

also the arguement of not being able to get an S197 down to a decent weight is bogus. We had one in 2006 down to 3150 with driver and still had a ton of steel in it. Just got to get rid of those heavy ass 351's which is about to happen I guess with the allowance of the motorsport block.

 

I bought a 14" two piece Brembo Kit on SVTP for $1200 or 1300 for my Cobra R. I just bought a 14" Brembo FR500C kit used for $1600. The GT500 Brembo kit is the one piece rotor version of the FR500C kit and its $1100 or something new.

 

Again I could be wrong, but the $4k Brembo kit is that new Monster kit with the giant brake pads that would last half a season.

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No I bought one. There are bolt on kits for 13" brakes with stock spindles. And what is the big problem making a brake hanger . Its eather that or a custom upright .

and yes the spindles do suck and so do the hubs , and 1 is being developed for an sla setup .

3150lb is not a decent wt. against 2700

Mine is about the same and I'm 230lb.

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Again I could be wrong, but the $4k Brembo kit is that new Monster kit with the giant brake pads that would last half a season.

 

My PFC01's last 1/2 a season now...?

 

Dave, Todd reviewed the list he posted at the beginning of this thread with our entire AI group. Probably a little more color than he included here, but the only issues I had with it were the proposed ride height measuring changes, possibly deleting ram air setups (not happy) and the requirement for a dash (needs definition). The rest seemed appropriate and along the lines of keeping abs (whatever you want to run), deleting traction control, allowing the aluminum 351 block, phasing out Mustang SS over 2 or 3 years, a new windshield banner and likely deleting the 18" wheels tires and 14" brakes, possibly over the next 2 or 3 years. Toyo's offering of fresh 18" RA1's may cause that anyway as it only seems they are sending 275/40/17's and 255/50/16's for our respective classes. No word on 18's as they are too damn expensive in my mind.

 

That's the general gist of it....and hence I have been in the garage this weekend working on my car again.

 

Nothing major unless you have the big ticket stuff or a bastard car.

 

My guess is we are going to see a line in the 2010 rules sort of like the R888 BS....run your 2009 car for the first 3 weekends in 2010! LOL!!!!

 

also for the record, we all told Todd that the way the rules "modifications" were being handled was a complete clusterfuck and done very poorly. We even had to inform him we were re-instating our previous regional director who was apparently removed and never even told. I realize they are trying to do the right thing for the class overall, but my impression is that there are too many captains at the helm of a ship on a fast course headed down for the waterfall after it already weathered the hurricane. It's time for quick and clean damage control plan with a firm new heading relayed to the crew. Every deadline missed just destroys any remaining faith in the "leadership" and hurts the class. someone needs to stand up as the benevelent dictator and put the line in the sand so we can move forward. BTW, tomorrow is 11/24 already....

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There was just not enough vintage support to keep this alive or that's where I would be running. Your car should be AI legal unless your under the hp/wt .

 

Haven't made it to the Dyno yet, but somewhere around 450 at the Flywheel I'd guess, in a 3350 lb car with 15" rims, 11" rotors and drum rears.

 

I keep hearing people say the same thing about Vintage as you did, that they'd run it if it were there. Then why isn't it there?

 

In the SE we have 3 commited and ready to run it, another 3-4 expressed interest for next season so we're giving it a shot again.

But to get counts up we were looking at 85 and older to get some Fox and 3rd Gen F's in it. Still a 25 year old car.

I think 75 and older gets the cars closer technology wise, lots of changes happened in the late 70's early 80's. I dragged and street raced a 68 Firebird against the 70-80's cars back when they were new, I can do it again.

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No I bought one. There are bolt on kits for 13" brakes with stock spindles. And what is the big problem making a brake hanger . Its eather that or a custom upright .

and yes the spindles do suck and so do the hubs , and 1 is being developed for an sla setup .

3150lb is not a decent wt. against 2700

Mine is about the same and I'm 230lb.

 

I think the lightest car at nationals was in the 2900 range. So far, even with the varying aero packages the HP/WT ratio has been pretty damn good formula for close racing. I personally would like to see the AI min weight moved to 2900.

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No way I can put a dash in my car. That's a deal stopper for me.

 

Its nice that some of you got a heads up and can get back in the garage.

 

Mine's back in the trailer.

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No way I can put a dash in my car. That's a deal stopper for me.

 

Its nice that some of you got a heads up and can get back in the garage.

 

Mine's back in the trailer.

 

I am sorry that is the case but I didn't run the meeting at our banquet. We did have the noose around Todd's neck....the building just wouldn't let us use the rafters!

 

I realize these guys have day jobs but I think the idea of an "AI Board" needs to go away. Doesn't work anymore as there are too many separate agendas.

 

RCR #126....disband the AI board of directors. vote for king and move on.

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what in the F-word does a dash have to do with anything?? so my car is going to be illegal because it doesnt have a dash??? thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard. if thats the case i wont be racing in AI as there is absolutely no way i can put a dash back in. my roll cage and some supports are in the way. Oh and if 18s and 14in brakes go away im out too. looks like i should start looking for different class so i can get the car ready for next year.

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I have to chime in on the dash thing, in general seems to have no point one way or another, I would like to ask for some clarification, Todd says dash not stock dash, so while I know the exact rules aren't out, is the thinking just some tin to cover up the wires and roll cage or will they need to see the air vents from the stock setup.

 

Either way lets get these done, take a vote or what ever and call it done.

 

Mark

UBR AI 76

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Dash "kits" can be bought from a number of drag racing shops that are just skins in the range of $250 to $450 depending on materials. I sort of like the idea but it's only "on the table for discussion". It would be a PITA to fit one back in my car but apparently someone thinks it should be in the rules.....?

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OK boys daddy is getting tired of all the fooling around!

 

POST THE RULES ALREADY!!!!!!!

 

It cant be this hard.............I dont even know what to say. Performance touring here I come, ST something, I dont know.

 

What is the hold up?

 

Robin

For rules clarification

586-246-3287

 

THROW US A BONE, WHAT HAVE YOU DECIDED?

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It cant be this hard.............I dont even know what to say. Performance touring here I come, ST something, I dont know.

 

agreed st2 sounds like a good place to have a little fun!

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OK boys daddy is getting tired of all the fooling around!

 

POST THE RULES ALREADY!!!!!!!

 

It cant be this hard.............I dont even know what to say. Performance touring here I come, ST something, I dont know.

 

What is the hold up?

 

Robin

For rules clarification

586-246-3287

 

THROW US A BONE, WHAT HAVE YOU DECIDED?

 

They are using the Obama/Afganistan decision model. Its not their fault. Its the recommended way of doing things today.

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Dash "kits" can be bought from a number of drag racing shops that are just skins in the range of $250 to $450 depending on materials. I sort of like the idea but it's only "on the table for discussion". It would be a PITA to fit one back in my car but apparently someone thinks it should be in the rules.....?

 

 

Way way past the what can we do, but why should we care if there is a dash or not it just seems pointless to even be on table, even more so when Thanksgiven is here and the car isn't even unloaded yet much less the project plan for the winter projects.

 

I agree with Robin, publish what you know, tell us the one or two things in the air, if you have more than that in the air, call it quits, no rule changes this year, keep working for next year. Really would one more year kill us with the current rules.

 

Sorry I know it is hard work, I know the team is doing this for what is best for the series, I know you all have jobs that pay the bills, even the more reason to consider a more practical approach.

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1.possibly deleting ram air setups (not happy)

2.requirement for a dash (needs definition).

3.keeping abs (whatever you want to run),

4.deleting traction control,

5.allowing the aluminum 351 block,

6.phasing out Mustang SS over 2 or 3 years,

7.a new windshield banner

8.deleting the 18" wheels tires and 14" brakes

 

1.What "ram air" ?

2.Why? this isn't CMC!

3.Another advantage for ford!

4.Good

5.Another advantage for ford!

6.Good

7.Very good

8.I say open up tire size, IF YOU CAN FIT IT UNDER YOUR STOCK FENDERS WITHOUT MODS!

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I race a Factory Five in the FFC/FFR class, so I guess my vote really doesn't count. I will say this, however, car counts at Nationals were down this year in all classes. Focus the ruleset on whatever brings out cars.

 

That said, I always enjoy hearing people argue about the cost of racing. Sorry to say, racing isn't cheap, and even an amateur can read the spirit and actual rule of the AI class and AIX class and see that running at the front can and will cost real money. That said, I have driven my $25,000 (ready to run) Factory Five by cars costing 5 times as much. A few years ago, people in Factory Five were militantly chasing power in a purely spec series. It was hilarous. People were spending a boatload of money to match parts, machine engines, etc. Then Tony Buffamonte won Nationals with something like 218 HP when everyone else had 230 HP. Some people literally had no idea how he passed them on the straights with less power. It never crossed their mind that he came out of a turn 20 mph faster than they did. Moral to the story, while it is easy (and conveinent) to complain about cost and spending, talent wins races. I will agree that at some point, talent levels get close enough that money does start to matter, and that is just life. Historically, I see drivers with low talent and a low budget complaining about high talent and at least a high-er budget. Become a better driver. Become the best damn driver you can be. Make totally sure your car doesn't have a tenth left in it. Then, and only then, complain about cost, with an open mind that this is an expensive sport.

 

I like to see real driver talent at work. I think it is boneheaded to have a new throttle by wire car to have to come back to a cable throttle, because in my opinion that difference has nothing to do with the driver. Let the technology live. But, because I like to see drivers and not cars win, I also think that ABS should be eliminated from all race cars. Threshold braking is an art. Good drivers know how to do it. If you can't do it, and you square your tires, learn. Or pay. Don't complain.

 

I also think it is unfair to tell a guy that built a car legal to the rules last year to have to dumb it down because you pull the ruleset back. Do I think that you should be able to run an aluminum Chevrolet engine in a Ford? No. I personally think that is asenine. I also think the pull off front ends are similarly asenine. But, the rules allow it, I do not condem the guys that read the rules and built the cars to the rules, and it would be a major change for guys that built those cars to have to undo the changes, and I think that is unfair. I speak from ignorance on this point, but I think disabling ABS is relatively simple on most cars.

 

Finally, I believe the powers that be should fully ignore all of my comments from the decision because I do not race an AI car. I also believe, respectfully, that you should virtually ignore anyone elses comments that do not regularly field a car, or that do not have a reasonable plan to regularly field a car (my heart really goes out to the poor sap that is assembling the turbo-4 car - give that guy some slack). I really love it when people that own a Factory Five but never (or rarely) race it chime in so forcefully on rule decisions.

 

All of the above said, I love watching American Iron races and would love to see a boatload of AI cars taking green flags. Do whatever it takes to make that happen.

 

-Scott

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Dash "kits" can be bought from a number of drag racing shops that are just skins in the range of $250 to $450 depending on materials. I sort of like the idea but it's only "on the table for discussion". It would be a PITA to fit one back in my car but apparently someone thinks it should be in the rules.....?

 

I'll agree with Ryan. F-that.

 

I have a dash. It's about 4" x 12", it holds the 3 gauges I want in the car, and it was made out of scrap AL. If you guys require a dash in the car, I'll take a stock one, cut it in half, and bolt it in the back seat as ballast.

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OK boys daddy is getting tired of all the fooling around!

 

POST THE RULES ALREADY!!!!!!!

 

It cant be this hard.............I dont even know what to say. Performance touring here I come, ST something, I dont know.

 

What is the hold up?

 

Robin

For rules clarification

586-246-3287

 

THROW US A BONE, WHAT HAVE YOU DECIDED?

 

 

I have been holding strong Robin on this one, I have a whole pack of st2 cars here in socal. I think i can make st2 with the 315's and 60 more hp! Or CMC 2 with another car!

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I race a Factory Five in the FFC/FFR class, so I guess my vote really doesn't count...

All of the above said, I love watching American Iron races and would love to see a boatload of AI cars taking green flags. Do whatever it takes to make that happen.

 

-Scott

 

Well said Scott... the whole entire post.

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first of all I have two more mustang ss cars in my shop being built now how can you even think that its any advantage other than weight. If you allow the alum.351w than what could possibly be the problem with a ls??? that would just F me after all the work to make everything work right and now you talk of pushing us out is just purist bull crap ass far as min.wt not one car that has come or coming from my shop is over 2750 and we can only get up to like 2920 with a big batt. and glass. What just gets me is you guys dont seem to get is the more rules you make the more the money does good as for 18inch wheels let them have them anybody who runs them by choice is a fool they weigh more and the tires have a higher spring rate so go ahead as for abs some drivers can't drive so what ever makes me no differance to me

 

 

If you guys don't want the class to grow just put in these stupid ass rules we are talking about that basicly force us out of the series because we can read a book and build a car a lil different than you thats my job!!! any one of you could do the same like T.J said just try.

 

The bs of giving a heavy car a bigger tire is some crazy bull.

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