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update/backdate between different gens - C5/C6 vette


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Posted

C5/C5Z06 and base C6 use the same basic brakes, with only a caliper change difference (same pads/rotors). caliper has slightly more material, less prone to spreading with extreme heat.

 

Z51 C6 uses the same caliper and pads, but a slightly larger rotor.

 

C5 Z06, and C6, C6 Z51 (LS2) all run TTA*, all with ~400 hp, min comp weight are very similar (61 lb difference)

 

When service replacing, can the C5/C5 Z06 use the C6 caliper (backdate/update) since they run in the same class with the same * pts out of the box?

 

"Updating and backdating of parts between different model years of the same vehicle model is

legal provided that the competing vehicle is in the same or higher base class than the donor

vehicle"

 

  • National Staff
Posted

Why did you leave this part out in your bolded copy and paste from the rules?

Updating or backdating (without a point’s assessment) with specialty models or between two cars that have model names with different

numbers or letters in them is prohibited, unless specifically approved.

 

C5, C6, Z06 are all different "numbers or letters".

Posted

Just splitting hairs, here, but "point's" is possessive, which could certainly imply that the assessment would be a singular point. I know that's not the intent of the rule, but... Like Clinton said: "It depends on what the definition of 'is' is..."

Posted

looks like a typo to me

 

try it though, I'd love to see that appeal

Posted

the C6Z06 is a totally different animal, in the braking dept, there is very little difference in base C5, C5Z06, and C6. powdercoated red C5 calipers on the C5Z06

 

I understand the different letters thing, obviously, it was in the title of the post. since the cars are fairly even and compete in the same class, I felt it was a legit question

Posted

but yet you wanted to change it why?

you wanted to change it because it was an advantage

Posted

The only advantage is safety. The C6 caliper is less likely to fail. The pad is identical.

  • Members
Posted
The only advantage is safety. The C6 caliper is less likely to fail. The pad is identical.

 

 

Whats this?? C5 calipers are dangerous?? This is the first im hearing of C5 caliper failures. Perhaps we need to park them all in the interest of safety?

Posted

I use the 1996 Grand Sport caliper on my '88 and I get dinged 3 points. Oh well, Dems da rules.....I hope to take advantage of those 3 points when I can afford a REAL upgrade.

 

I doubt you'll see an improvement in TT but anything over 15 minutes and my "stock" PBR's are a little scary.

Posted

I've gone through a set of calipers for each of the last two seasons... The S197 uses a 2-piston PBR style caliper, and under heavy track usage, the heat and pressures (from trying to slow down a really fat pig) cause the bridge to spread, and you wind up with uneven (taper) pad wear. I'm moving to Brembo calipers (off the GT500) for next season to try to combat that, and yes, I will be taking the full point assessment.

Posted

I went through 3 sets of calipers in 7 events. I upgraded in the name of safety, and swapped between models. I also took the 3 points.

  • National Staff
Posted

Why are you guys taking +3 on a +2 point mod (Brake calipers)?

Posted
Why are you guys taking +3 on a +2 point mod (Brake calipers)?

 

 

I knew someone would catch that. I was trying one of Monster8v's mind games......

Posted

And why would you take a +2 point hit and stay with an oem caliper. That makes no sense to me.

I have been running the stock s197 set up and carry a new set of calipers to every event. Orig still on car after 4 years and it hasn't gotten any worse . Yes the pads get all destroyed. Horizontal and vertical plains are shot . You also get rotor flex with 1 pc. rotors which attributes to the vertical wedge . I would bet that if you go to a better caliper you will end up with more rotor problems . My rotors only last 2 weekends and they crack. Cooling duct's and all.

Just my opinion which doesn't mean squat but I wouldn't waste money unless the whole set up is ditched.

considering what I put this stock stuff through I am very impressed with what Ford gave me for brakes .

Aggressive brake pads tear shit up encluding bearings.

Normally with a good set of brakes you can run a much more rotor friendly pad.

Do your homework before handing over your cash for a brake kit

Posted
And why would you take a +2 point hit and stay with an oem caliper. That makes no sense to me.

 

I don't know if you were responding to the OP, me, or Trevor, so... The GT500 OE caliper (I'm sure you know this) is a Brembo F40 setup with a Ford proprietary inner half that simply bolts to the knuckle, eliminating brackets, adapters, etc., and increases rotor diameter from 13" to 14" I picked up a take-off package for a FRACTION of what a "traditional" big brake kit costs... If I can get the pads and rotors to last longer than the stock setup like I think it will, I'll be money ahead on the deal after the first season.

Posted

you guys should run TTF or something

 

- KB, podiumed nationally on $65/axle street/autox pads

Posted
And why would you take a +2 point hit and stay with an oem caliper. That makes no sense to me.

 

Money, and to race in CMC. The Cobra brakes are fine for the HP that I plan on running. Also ANY other brakes are an upgrade over the 94-95 Mustang. The front brakes on my '84 Volvo 240 have 4 piston calipers.

Posted
I went through 3 sets of calipers in 7 events. I upgraded in the name of safety, and swapped between models. I also took the 3 points.

 

Wow! Was this the cobra PBR calipers? What exactly failed? I've been using the same set of cobra PBRs on my track car for the past 4 seasons as I progressed up to TT last season. I've been running on A6's for the past season. The only thing I've noticed is that they fade by the end of a session and there is a slight pad taper.

Posted
Why did you leave this part out in your bolded copy and paste from the rules?

Updating or backdating (without a point’s assessment) with specialty models or between two cars that have model names with different

numbers or letters in them is prohibited, unless specifically approved.

 

C5, C6, Z06 are all different "numbers or letters".

 

To be technical... "C5" and "C6" are not model names, its a generation. However I assume "or between two cars that have model names with different numbers or letters in them" applies to the base classification of cars table in the TT rules (where c5 and c6 are defined differently).

 

If this is true, using the C6 calipers would not be a free mod to ANY C5 corvette.

 

 

 

 

The only advantage is safety. The C6 caliper is less likely to fail. The pad is identical.

 

 

Whats this?? C5 calipers are dangerous?? This is the first im hearing of C5 caliper failures. Perhaps we need to park them all in the interest of safety?

 

They don't fail as in losing all brakes, but they do spread after some real abuse. And after they spread, they don't go back to normal so braking performance is severely compromised. This is the same dilemma with the stock camaro/firebird calipers. I've gone thru 3-4 sets myself before upgrading to C6 calipers. The 2 points is worth it to rid yourself of that hassle. The weaker caliper will run the same lap time, but only untill it spreads so you have to "milk" the brakes and choose your hot lap in session wisely.

Posted
I went through 3 sets of calipers in 7 events. I upgraded in the name of safety, and swapped between models. I also took the 3 points.

 

Wow! Was this the cobra PBR calipers? What exactly failed? I've been using the same set of cobra PBRs on my track car for the past 4 seasons as I progressed up to TT last season. I've been running on A6's for the past season. The only thing I've noticed is that they fade by the end of a session and there is a slight pad taper.

 

 

I should have been more clear. That was with my stock 95 mustang calipers. With Hawk blue, and HT-10, as well as carbotech pads. I would get one weekend out of a set of pads if I was lucky. I switched to the Cobra brakes with 2 events left. They were awesome, and I still have 50% pad left.

Posted

Trevor , sounds like a good deal , although I'm not sure the 14" is the answer , that will sure be better than GT brakes.

Cost is always something to consider for us home brewers.

Brembo pads are not cheep

Posted
[The weaker caliper will run the same lap time, but only untill it spreads so you have to "milk" the brakes and choose your hot lap in session wisely.

 

Exactly. And if you'll see my original post it was in the context of service replacing (not just randomly throwing upgrades on the car). Ie when your C5 units are toast, and it's replacement time, is the C6 a (no points) option. I surely don't see it as "gaining an advantage" when any nearly identical weight/hp C6 car is using the exact same thing in the same class, AND with larger rotors in the case of the Z51 car.

 

Question/rules clarification answered however.

Posted

As far as a point assessment you have to send Greg a pm and get it cleared through him.

It looks like a 2 pointer to me

  • National Staff
Posted

Steve, I already said it was two points.

Posted

Yes you did but I thought that if you got a pm you might get pissed and asses the Vett-enemy 3 points

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