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RockLobster

Enduro Tire Rules

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RockLobster

sweet! I shot myself in the foot....

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kbrew8991

pretty at the changes from me - if they're going to force PT_ on class legal tires then they need to force everyone on class legal tires. Or just constrain us to class legal widths and let everyone change DOT tire models.

 

something something goose and gander something

 

the new E3 class is also setup to be dominated by ITA and H-Prod cars, but thats another email

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wlfpkrcn1

I don't think there will be many HP cars running DOT tires. They are set up for slicks.

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kbrew8991

Sent this in, feel free to plagiarize & tweak as you wish & send it in to the National Office:

 

Saw the 2010 Ruleset - pretty excited to see the E3 class filled out a bit, should make for more competition across all E0-3 classes really by narrowing the ranges of laptimes within each class.

 

Two things did jump out at me that I would like for you guys to consider

1.) Looking specifically at the "new" E3 class and doing some quick initial research it seems that SCCA ITA and SCCA HP are a bit of an overdog compared to the rest of the class by 2-4 seconds per lap over the rest of the "pack" in E3 which are spread over a further 4-6 seconds behind ITA and HP. I would be happy to research this further if necessary, please let me know and I'll dig up some more laptimes from other tracks and send that sheet along to you guys to look at. Currently I just have information for Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta, and Road America but I feel those 3 tracks are a fair representation of tracks across the country (handling/momentum, high speed handling, straightaway intensive respectively). Feel free to suggest other tracks to consider if you wish.

 

2.) NASA PT classes currently see a disadvantage as compared to Spec classes and classes from other organizations the way things are currently written. NASA PT_ cars cannot change around to different tires within the DOT category like other classes can. I suggest we visit the idea of constraining PT_ cars to the following: "Tire width determines PT points assessment".

 

This would allow a PT car using an RA1 to see the same gains going to a Hoosier R that a Spec Miata or SpecE30 would see when using the allowance provided under 3.3.1

 

The alternative would be to strike 3.3.1 completely and specify instead that all cars must run class legal tires.

 

Thanks for everything!

- KB

NASA TX Time Trials Director

full disclosure - 1994 Toyota MR2 - TTF, PTF, E3

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RockLobster

I would agree. Is it really a good idea to send in multiple letters on the same subject or is that just a waste of their time?

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kbrew8991

other than taking my ball and going home I don't know what else to do besides pestering leadership to consider a change. Might at least get an understanding of why things are the way they are that way.

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wlfpkrcn1

Not dogging you Ken but what Does an HP car turn on DOT tires?

 

Remember prod cars are built for sprint races. I do not think many if any will show for an Enduro.

 

Just an FYI- Before the 25 hour became what it is, it was a 12 hour. We ran in Pro7 spec and finished 4th in class and 12th overall. Could we have won in IT spec(E2)... Maybe, but we still beat the IT cars. We lost to 3 SM's

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RockLobster

I really hope they do change those tire rules.

 

The more i look the more i think there is not much reason for a PT car to try to compete in enduros. They are simply completely out classed by having those tire limitations.

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Sterling Doc
I really hope they do change those tire rules.

 

The more i look the more i think there is not much reason for a PT car to try to compete in enduros. They are simply completely out classed by having those tire limitations.

 

 

After running several enduros this year, all this hand wringing over tires seems quite silly. On an amauteur level, pit stops and consistancy matter so much more than outright speed, that I don't worry about tires much. When you measure pit stops in minutes, slicing time off there is what counts. Also, it seems only a minority of racers can avoid going off over 3 hours as well. Spend time working on driver changes, and getting fuel jugs to vent well. All this theoretical bench racing means little in reality.

 

1st event we won overall on heat cycled out R-888's that I was trying to get rid of (good riddance!). How? We made one 1:30 pit stop, where the faster cars (incluing E0/ES cars that clearly "outclassed" our E3 car) made several 4"+ pit stops. Lap times were off from our sprint race pace, but it mattered not in the enduro. It did matter that we never went off.

 

Rather than whining about the ruleset, work on the big (free or cheap) issues on minimizing time you're not moving, and kick some enduro but. The "fastest" cars are not usually the ones that win on an amateur level, but the best prepared cars/treams.

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richard migliori

Eric,

I have been saying that for the last 7 years about endurance strategies. We have logged more seat hours and less cost doing enduros than sprints! I have been trying to tell guys that finish in the lower 10 in their class all the time to give it up and go endurance racing where you have a very good chance at winning. I have an ES car, and going against the pros and ESR's, I have never looked at them as threats because they are "on the edge" builds and they aren't as dependable as one thinks. In endurances, the Hondas and Miatas have the same chance as us to win. You are right! It is not about speed and tires but about the equipment treatment and planning. I like over sprints is because if you have a flat or malfunction early on, it doesn't take away your chances of wining the race or class.

 

RM

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Sterling Doc

Richard-

 

Funny you should mention that - we had a tire blow up on a warm-up lap, and started from the very back of a 33 car field (barely caught the back of the field for the start) - this would have been a killer in a sprint race, but just added to the drama in the endurance race - last to 1st!

 

I agree endurance racing is great fun, and a huge value for the seat time.

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