philstireservice Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Guys, we are not changing the ST1 or ST2 Adjusted Wt/hp ratio limits at this time----5.5:1 and 8.7:1. The ST3 test class in the Northeast Region in 2010 will use 10.25:1 as the limit. If we don't see new cars, and all we see is dilution from PTA, PTB, GTS, HC, etc, then don't expect to see it as a National class in 2011. Being that there are no or very few HC1, PTA and PTB cars in the Northeast this will give them a place to play together and have some competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Guys, we are not changing the ST1 or ST2 Adjusted Wt/hp ratio limits at this time----5.5:1 and 8.7:1. The ST3 test class in the Northeast Region in 2010 will use 10.25:1 as the limit. If we don't see new cars, and all we see is dilution from PTA, PTB, GTS, HC, etc, then don't expect to see it as a National class in 2011. Being that there are no or very few HC1, PTA and PTB cars in the Northeast this will give them a place to play together and have some competition. Same here in Gods Country. Several singles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtm68 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 and no stupid points to play with! I love it. I was just going to run SU for ease of classing, but now I might have a chance to run in a competitive class... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 It is official. NASA Texas is considering the potential to also run ST-3 as a trial class in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lay Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 IMHO ST is the best class and idea NASA has come up with and ST-3 just improves it. I'm not attracted to PT because of the points calcs and the yearly changes. ST is about straight forward and stable as it gets. ST-3 gives my slow ST-2 and x-SCCA T1 car a home and also opens up to many others like the 350 Z that can be competitive on slicks. I also think the SCCA T-2 and World Challenge Touring cars could fit well in ST-3. Bravo NASA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 It is official. NASA Texas is considering the potential to also run ST-3 as a trial class in 2010. Excellent !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06RACER Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 There are too many damn classes in NASA. Its time to consolidate some of these groups. I think with ST3 there are now 40...count 'em 40 classes your car could run in. At the last event at RA..41 cars raced in Thunder, under 13 different classes, with times ranging from 1:28 to 1:53. Alot of these classes could be combined and thus increase the car count in each group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 how many does SCCA have Bob - both regional and national? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 It is now really, really official. NASA Texas is going to run ST-3 as a trial class for 2010. This class should be a new growth opportunity. Bob, As new better classes are conceived then lesser classes can be deleted, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryancohnracing Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 SCCA has 30 National classes and somewhere around 110 Regional classes. Yes, many moons ago when I worked there I had to count up all the Regional classes...so it might have changed slightly one way or the other, but it was pretty constant within a few either way over a 4 year period. At 40 we have a lot, no question. Too many? Who knows. Certainly not me. I have my opinions but so does everyone else, and all are of equal value! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 At 40 we have a lot, no question. Too many? Who knows. Certainly not me. I have my opinions but so does everyone else, and all are of equal value! Now that's not so Bryan......you specifically told me that your opinion always counts the most .....lol.. Happy Holidays dude ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06RACER Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Bob, As new better classes are conceived then lesser classes can be deleted, IMHO. I agree Kevin.....but so many of these classes are so close to each other that ...to me...it just doesn't make sense. And when have you EVER seen a class deleted...c'mon. SCCA has 30 National classes and somewhere around 110 Regional classes. Yes, many moons ago when I worked there I had to count up all the Regional classes...so it might have changed slightly one way or the other, but it was pretty constant within a few either way over a 4 year period. At 40 we have a lot, no question. Too many? Who knows. Certainly not me. I have my opinions but so does everyone else, and all are of equal value! Brian...there are 29 National classes. You're count of 110 regional classes might be right, but is misleading.If you go to any region there are never more then a total of ~ 35 CLASSES/region (the 29 plus IT and spo/U). the north may call a class ITE, the south calls it SPO>>>but they are the same class. THUS, there are not really 110 classes. And Brian, I think the SCCA needs to combine and eliminate classes as well. As examples: Move STO and GT2 together. Slow down ST and combine w/T1. 24 groups would be great. This way when you showed up to race, you would be assured of having several cars in your class to race with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I would like to see all the PT and TT classes go to strictly power to weight with modifiers for tires and aerodynamics and get ride of all the point systems . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbuskuhl Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 There are too many damn classes in NASA. Its time to consolidate some of these groups. I think with ST3 there are now 40...count 'em 40 classes your car could run in. + 1. Is it only 40? Here in TX "regional" type classes are also allowed. NASA doesn't even have the formula/sports racer classes to deal with. This is essentially 40+ production car classes. HC, GTS, PT, ST - could we not combine some things here? I would like to see all the PT and TT classes go to strictly power to weight with modifiers for tires and aerodynamics and get ride of all the point systems . + 1 How about ST1-6 Greg had this to say when I proposed such one year ago... The problem is that it is a money pit that most cannot afford. Since just about all mods are legal, theoretically, one would need to spend many thousands of dollars on suspension geometry and chassis balancing changes, $5000 shocks, etc, just to try and be competitive. This happens less with GTS because the German cars tend to start out with better OEM engineering and technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 That makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Less classes - yes Better classes - yes Wt/Hp - yes Wt/HP Money Pit - yes...............but I agree the pure Wt/Hp rules set facilitates the need to spend money, but the spec type classes aren't far off. If you want to build a winning car in SM or 944 Spec you need to start with mutiple engines and carefully machine and test every component to build the best single motor. In Wt/HP you can run a stock motor, often straight from the junkyard, and invest that money in suspension etc. What I like is the idea of having a Wt/HP system like ST for the lower powered PT cars. PTC=15:1, PTD=17:1 etc. Today there are Wt/HP limits for these classes, but you must follow the PT rules AND stay within the limits. Overlaying the Wt/HP limits gives you two entry points to arrive at the same class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 13, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 13, 2009 I agree Kevin.....but so many of these classes are so close to each other that ...to me...it just doesn't make sense. And when have you EVER seen a class deleted...c'mon. Deleted in the past 5-6 years: Seven's Challenge AWD Challenge American Stockcar Challenge (from NASA) Pro Truck (from NASA) Baby Grand GTI Cup Kit Car Challenge Mini Challenge Pro 7 PS7 PS0, PS1, PS2, PS3 RSR SE-R Cup, SE-R Extreme HU Spec SRT Vette-Viper Challenge 1, VVC2, VVC3 Spec Neon Spec Focus (also PTH and PTG) I'm sure that I've missed some. However, NASA will delete classes when they have run out of gas or we develop something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Less classes - yesBetter classes - yes Wt/Hp - yes Wt/HP Money Pit - yes...............but I agree the pure Wt/Hp rules set facilitates the need to spend money, but the spec type classes aren't far off. If you want to build a winning car in SM or 944 Spec you need to start with mutiple engines and carefully machine and test every component to build the best single motor. In Wt/HP you can run a stock motor, often straight from the junkyard, and invest that money in suspension etc. What I like is the idea of having a Wt/HP system like ST for the lower powered PT cars. PTC=15:1, PTD=17:1 etc. Today there are Wt/HP limits for these classes, but you must follow the PT rules AND stay within the limits. Overlaying the Wt/HP limits gives you two entry points to arrive at the same class. ST3...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I would like to see all the PT and TT classes go to strictly power to weight with modifiers for tires and aerodynamics and get ride of all the point systems . and that'd be the quickest way to get me to move on to another club / org to race with - KB, who won't spend $10K, $20k, etc to be competitive in a 20lb/hp car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06RACER Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Deleted in the past 5-6 years: Seven's Challenge AWD Challenge American Stockcar Challenge (from NASA) Pro Truck (from NASA) Baby Grand GTI Cup Kit Car Challenge Mini Challenge Pro 7 PS7 PS0, PS1, PS2, PS3 RSR SE-R Cup, SE-R Extreme HU Spec SRT Vette-Viper Challenge 1, VVC2, VVC3 Spec Neon Spec Focus (also PTH and PTG) I'm sure that I've missed some. However, NASA will delete classes when they have run out of gas or we develop something better. WOW......I didn't realize so many were deleted...I stand corrected. Now lets combine some more groups!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroks Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Damn, when was that AWD Challange in place?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 14, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 14, 2009 It was regional and short-lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balroks Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 With so many race prep'd Evo's and STI's out there now doing time attacks and what not this would be easy to fill today i'd think. Several years ago whenever it was in place I can see why it wouldn't. Time and place...always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 With so many race prep'd Evo's and STI's out there now doing time attacks and what not this would be easy to fill today i'd think. Several years ago whenever it was in place I can see why it wouldn't. Time and place...always I'd have to agree. I'm not race prepped, but something like an AWD Challenge could really change my mind. In the meantime, ST3 might be a good and competitive spot for me to aspire as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 15, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 15, 2009 There is no need for an AWD Challenge series. The AWD's can run in SU, ST, STR, and PT, and some of them can run in GTS. Most of the fast Time Attack cars are SU cars, and others are ST1 or ST2. However, you might have noticed that most of them do not get raced. They are "show cars"---Flame suit on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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