Weed Wacker Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I was looking at the new rules and did not see STR classed at all. Are they supposed to both be ESR? Thats what i would guess just figured i would make sure. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I would suspect str to run ES. I have a car that follows the criteria of str and is a center steer car and is not ESR. RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 where are ST1 and ST2 mapped to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 str1 is ES and STR2 is EO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 21, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 21, 2009 str1 is ES and STR2 is EO No they aren't. ST1 is ES, and ST2 is E0. STR1 and STR2 would both be ES (running under SU). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Greg, then if str1 and 2 are SU, then why are they separated? You just said in your last post. I thought at first they were both SU but reading through the rules, I am under the impression that it was creating for production sedans that have tubular chassis', but the class already exsisted: SU. Now I am totally confused. No1, I have never seen a str entrant at any of our races. What is the purpose of a str class is all it does is dilute existing classes that struggle. I know in Nor cal only 2 cars run ST1. That is a total waste of time and equipment. Why not add wieght to the str cars and make them run ST? I don't think it is NASA's problem that people build cars that don't fit their respective existing classes. I experienced that. I did read on another thread about one complaining about to many classes. Keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 21, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 21, 2009 Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. STR1 and STR2 are not currently listed in the Enduro Rules. So, those cars would run in ES under SU currently. As far as I know, there is no plan to allow STR2 cars to run anywhere lower than ES anyway, so there is no reason to add them to the list in the enduro rules anyway, because they can be listed as SU, and not have to deal with Dyno sheets or Forms. As far as the difference between STR1, STR2, and SU, it is huge. Those are sprint classes, and since you don't seem to run sprint classes, I'm not really sure why you care anyway. However, STR2 and STR1 are for any type of 4 wheel vehicle, where ST1 and ST2 do have limitations to the chassis, frame, strut towers, floor pan, and subframe. We found that there was no simple way to equalize tube frame cars and the production cars without some tube frame cars becoming un-competative. We did a lot of research and testing on this. One of the reasons for the STR1 and STR2 classes is to help determine if there is some way in the future to merge them back with ST1 and ST2 in a manner that would be fair to both types of cars. We will need lots more car numbers in STR1 and STR2 before we can determine if that will be a viable option in the future, though. You may want to run your GTM's numbers through the calculations again for STR1, just to make sure that it isn't legal (or close) now that we have revised the weight table in ST. Maybe you are close to being able to run in another sprint class beside SU. I know someone (five-time NASA National Champion) who would be happy to drive it in sprint races for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks Greg for the clarification on that. I still get confused with the numbers trying to calculate the power to weight on the str stuff. When I do the calcs, and I think at one time I asked you for help, that because we run such low HP numbers that we are actually a str2? BUT the center steer cancels us out of everything except SU. Even in SCCA, SP is the only game in town for me, because of center steer. There we give up400 HP. We tried running SU, but my car is built for endurance and is not competitive in SU. I do care what str is, because if I did fit in I would try it. thanks, richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 22, 2009 National Staff Share Posted December 22, 2009 Richard, Feel free to take this off-line from here and e-mail me. Center steer is legal in STR! Just about all mods are to the chassis, suspension, steering, aero, etc. We can take another look at the car, and see if it fits in one of the STR classes now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weed Wacker Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 Thanks Greg for the clarification on that. I still get confused with the numbers trying to calculate the power to weight on the str stuff. When I do the calcs, and I think at one time I asked you for help, that because we run such low HP numbers that we are actually a str2? BUT the center steer cancels us out of everything except SU. Even in SCCA, SP is the only game in town for me, because of center steer. There we give up400 HP. We tried running SU, but my car is built for endurance and is not competitive in SU. I do care what str is, because if I did fit in I would try it. thanks, richard Center steer is not an issue in STR. It's for any car that meets the ratios, period. As far as it diluting the car counts, some cars like Greg said would not stand a chance under the current ST rules. In the Midwest region in 2010 we will have 10 regulars with 3 known people either going to just run a few or are still on the fence as to running at all in STR-2. Of those, 3 ran ST2 in years past. The new STR class has brought 7, possibly 10 more people out to run NASA with us. I would not call that a class that is only out to dilute other classes at all. Also, i don't think there is any chance that my 1380 lb, 125 whp legends car could ever have a chance against a radical or a monster such as your ls-powered monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard migliori Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 wacker, My car is not a monster car ( stock ls1) and it does qualify for STR2. But the bottom line is that it is not a sprint car, it's an endurance car. The low HP and the weight puts me into STR2. I could not be competitive in str1. RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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