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TT Classing?


Golin
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While working on the build of a Spec 3 car, as well as trying to improve upon the nut behind the wheel, I had intended to spend some time in TT. Does anyone have a sense of what the corresponding TT class would be for this car?

 

I imagine there'd be enough points accumulated to put the car up into TTD range, but I'm not sure that the HP output would make it competitive. Any thoughts or insight on this?

 

GT

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There are a few of us who have run TT and the car is classed in TTD. I think there might be room for a few more points for other modifications that are not allowed in the spec3 rules. I'm working on getting my car set for TT in 2010 as well, so once I get through all the classifications and stuff, I'll let you know what I find out.

 

Mike D'Ahbru has had some great success in TTD the few times he ran. Although not exactly set up perfectly for TT, I think the car is competitive and very capable of keeping up with the front runners.

 

Like you said, it probably more a function of tightening the nut behind the wheel. I'm working on the same phase

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I did a little more digging while trying to class my car and it seems that the car fall somewhere in the upper end of TTE and the super low end of TTD depending on weight.

 

I think shooting for TTE and adding any necessary ballast is the way to go with the spec3. I'll talk with the TT Regional Director at the Feb. event if not sooner to get it clarified.

 

I'm crossing my fingers for TTE!

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I'll talk with the TT Regional Director at the Feb. event if not sooner

 

Oh hi! Yea, from what I recall, it could be TTE depending on weight. Mike D'Abreu's car has no cage and runs quite light, which is why he's in TTD. He will be adding several hundred pounds of cage and probably ballast to make it Spec3 legal.

 

And these cars need to be in E. In D there's not much chance of one being competitive (fast D cars can run 2:17-18 @ VIR and 1:26-27 at Summit...)

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I'll talk with the TT Regional Director at the Feb. event if not sooner

 

Oh hi! Yea, from what I recall, it could be TTE depending on weight. Mike D'Abreu's car has no cage and runs quite light, which is why he's in TTD. He will be adding several hundred pounds of cage and probably ballast to make it Spec3 legal.

 

And these cars need to be in E. In D there's not much chance of one being competitive (fast D cars can run 2:17-18 @ VIR and 1:26-27 at Summit...)

 

 

Hey Jon! Glad you jumped in and verified all my calculating I did while I was waiting for a haircut yesterday!

 

I'll be helping Mike prep his car for his cage in about two weeks so he can be ready for February! Maybe I can get my sunroom welded in and cleaned up the same day

 

Jon do you remember what his car weighted and what hp numbers he was putting down?

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Jon do you remember what his car weighted

 

TT base weight for an E36 325i/is... is 3087#. I believe Mike's weight with driver was like 27xx. So he took a bunch of points for that alone, enough to put him in TTD.

 

Also keep in mind that since TT makes no differentiation between the 325i and the is, you will also need to take points for the diff (because it wasn't standard on the base model.)

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jon,

 

Mine is a 325i with a LSD. Some cars came with them I think and wasn't specific to the 325is. I don't think Brian's car has a LSD and he also has a 'is' version.

 

I'll add the points to my calculation though and see what that changes.

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Since the LSD didn't come on all of 'em then it's a factory option and therefore takes points. Some people conveniently forget to take points for it "because it came on the car stock"

 

Just bringing it up so there aren't any surprises later...

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  • 3 weeks later...

My first pass cut comes up with TTD

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width -4

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+47

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Damn, I didn't realize that the LSD was a +3...you can ballast up to 250lbs, is that worth anything to not take as many points for weight reduction?

 

I'm not sure mine is as far gutted as yours, but I really have no idea...it couldn't be too far apart since you have a cage in your car correct?

 

I'm still using a 75lb bolt in kirk.

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why are you getting -4 for tire width? Remember you're tied to your base class when it comes to points for or points back from tire width

 

otherwise sounds about right from what I've seen about Spec3. The thing you've got to remember (if you're thinking man that sounds too high) is that the points values are based on the best possible use of that modification where your spec parts might not be as agressive as they could be

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Is the weight supposed to include the driver? 3087 to 2900 isn't much, except when you count that the driver can be ~200 of the 2900.

 

yes, all weights are with driver, any leftover fuel, etc, etc. ie whatever the car would weigh if you drove straight to the scales and over them.

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If the tire's a 225, then it would actually be a +1 since the base class (TTF) tire size is 215, correct? Seems like the best way to make this formula competitive in TT while working on a Comp. License or whatever would be to add ballast so as not to take so many points for weight reduction.

 

Of course, KB is right, there are probably far more "aggressive" mods that can be done to the car to get it maxed out for TT competition. I think a competitor would have to realize that using a Spec 3 formula in TT would be more for learning about the car and driving in general as opposed to making a serious run at the TTx championship.

 

Especially when the reigning TTE National Champion runs in your Region. Hi Joe!

 

GT

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If the tire's a 225, then it would actually be a +1 since the base class (TTF) tire size is 215, correct?

 

Oops, yes, should be a +1, not a -4. I as looking at the TTD (245mm) when I should have been looking at the TTF value (215mm)

 

Is the weight supposed to include the driver? 3087 to 2900 isn't much, except when you count that the driver can be ~200 of the 2900.

 

I just took the base weight from TT rules (3087) and the min weight (with driver, fuel, etc.) from the Spec3 rules. I think this is the right process per the TT sheet. Of course, you can play with the ballast to remove points. But like Golin and kbrew8891 mentioned, TT'ing a Spec3 car, for me, would be a learning exercise.

 

I don't quite get the +4 for control arms. That is equivilant to like 60 lbs in weight, and I don't think the M3 front control arms improve the performance *that* much (if at all). I guess on other cars control arm changes net you a much better suspension setup?

 

Anyways, new list...

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width +1

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+52

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Just for conversation sake, I'm running the 325i control arms with offset bushigns at the moment as I didn't want to spend $400+ on M3 control arms and centered bushings and just bought $250 worth of 325i control arms with offset bushings that net the same suspension geometry...something I'd like to research more for a possible rule change in 2011 as a possible alternate to the M3 if you can deal with possibly weaker ball joints in the 325i arms.

 

Anyway! Back to TT!

 

Matt, from your calculation, I should be somewhat similiar to what you are running without a few of the oddball points. Luckily for us, we can still ballast fairly easily into TTE which is where we'd be most competitive or equally matched. Moving into TTD, we'd be very outgunned by being at the lower end of the possible point range.

 

While the spec3 isn't the most competitive car in regards to set-up for TT, I think it will still be able to put up a pretty decent fight from watching Mike run in TTD and winning against a pair of spec boxsters.

 

I'll be out in March to throw my car into some competition hopefully so we'll see where it falls and what the outcome is. (Still a very green driver)

 

As stated, the main purpose is not to necessarily go for a championship run campaign, but really get some competitive experience in the car before moving to wheel to wheel in 2011.

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  • 2 weeks later...
it's a factory option and therefore takes points.

 

Really? Boo...

 

keeps you from having to buy some rare special edition car to be competitive though (like what happens with other clubs/classes)

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  • 5 months later...

 

 

Anyways, new list...

 

Initial Assessment +14

Toyo RA-1 +7

225 tire width +1

Weight (3087-2900=187) +13

LSD +3

Modify intake +1

Exhaust +2

Non-OEM shocks +3

Non-OEM springs +2

Replace swaybars +2

Replace control arms +4

 

+52

 

I'm looking for the dumb answer... given the points, how much ballast must a fully prepped Spec3 run to hit TTE? Has anyone calculated it already?

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I'm looking for the dumb answer... given the points, how much ballast must a fully prepped Spec3 run to hit TTE? Has anyone calculated it already?

 

Based on the above calculation, it looks that if you subtract the 13 points for weight reduction, that it would put you right at the top of TTE.

 

GT

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I'm looking for the dumb answer... given the points, how much ballast must a fully prepped Spec3 run to hit TTE? Has anyone calculated it already?

 

Based on the above calculation, it looks that if you subtract the 13 points for weight reduction, that it would put you right at the top of TTE.

 

GT

 

Yep, you would have to ballast a 2900 lb Spec3 car to 3087 lbs (the base weight for the 325 in TT world).

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