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ST2 ?


Aaron B

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After speaking with Ken this past week I am very interested in ST2, I looked at the rules.... but not being the sharpest tool in the shed I think I am missing something....1995 Cobra former AI car, could be an underpowered AIX car now but looks like a really good fit for ST2 - 364Hp/394Tq - 8.7 to 1 = 3,167lbs - car is currently 3,150lbs with driver - currently running 275/40/17 Hoosier R6/A6 on 17x9 wheels...some sort of deduction? was mentioned for the wheel and tire combo? 8.4 to 1? allowing me to be 3,058lbs if I could get there? - thanks for the advice/help guys

 

Aaron

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That is correct. That 3058 with your tires and whp would put you at 8.8:1, provided your trans is stock-type (assuming it is since its an AI car). The wtq does no matter for classing, same thing for wheels. Not saying its wrong to tell anyone, just informing you for future reference.

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  • National Staff

Also, this may not apply to your Cobra, but make sure that you include the -0.2 Modification Factor if you have this:

 

Ford Mustang and BMW E-36 M3:

"Upper subframe connectors" that penetrate and modify the floorpan will be assessed a -0.2

Modification Factor (seen commonly in American Iron Mustangs).

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Also, this may not apply to your Cobra, but make sure that you include the -0.2 Modification Factor if you have this:

 

Ford Mustang and BMW E-36 M3:

"Upper subframe connectors" that penetrate and modify the floorpan will be assessed a -0.2

Modification Factor (seen commonly in American Iron Mustangs).

 

And don't forget the weight modifier for being under 3150....

 

ST2 is a great spot for AI cars with enough power to get there. ST3 is great for really light AI cars who could add 50 lbs and play too. I just don't have the power for ST2 unless I get to 2850lbs and then I start paying larger penalties for weight reduction.

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  • National Staff

True. Everyone make sure that they are using the 2010 Rules, because the Modification Factors for going below 3150 lbs are much less than last year (about half). For 2851 lbs--only -0.15, etc.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hmmm, I was asking the same type of question about PTA. So an AI car is more logically located in ST2.

 

I'll have to run through the numbers.

 

Bob

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Hmmm, I was asking the same type of question about PTA. So an AI car is more logically located in ST2.

 

 

I am not sure this is really the case....My SN95 is prepped for AI but at 3100lbs race weight and 365rwp I would need 400+ of ballast, so I am in a tough spot- underpowered and overweight for AIX - overpowered and underweight for AI..sheesh.. I have a 347 in the car right now and dropped the carb from 750 to 600 thinking maybe cut some power to fit in AI.....nope.... gained 2rwp and TQ and the motor couldn't be much milder, already shifting at 6k or less I suspect it will run at least 2 more seasons for sure- so ST2 it is.

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You guys should work through the points to see if your cars can fit in PTA also. The wt/hp limit is the same as ST2 but it limits the amount of modifications that can be done. I think you'll have fun either way.

 

The down side for you (Aaron) is that you'll have Graber for a race director in ST2......

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You guys should work through the points to see if your cars can fit in PTA also. The wt/hp limit is the same as ST2 but it limits the amount of modifications that can be done. I think you'll have fun either way.

 

The down side for you (Aaron) is that you'll have Graber for a race director in ST2......

 

Weird, on my phone at about 4pm there were two more posts here and one was from Phil about ST3...? now gone?

 

PTA rules would probably frown on most of the mods to an AI car, but might be worth looking into it.

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You guys should work through the points to see if your cars can fit in PTA also. The wt/hp limit is the same as ST2 but it limits the amount of modifications that can be done. I think you'll have fun either way.

 

The down side for you (Aaron) is that you'll have Graber for a race director in ST2......

 

Weird, on my phone at about 4pm there were two more posts here and one was from Phil about ST3...? now gone?

 

PTA rules would probably frown on most of the mods to an AI car, but might be worth looking into it.

 

 

 

I'm here Buddy...

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  • 3 months later...

Aaron B said:

 

"My SN95 is prepped for AI but at 3100lbs race weight and 365rwp I would need 400+ of ballast, so I am in a tough spot- underpowered and overweight for AIX - overpowered and underweight for AI..sheesh.. I have a 347 in the car right now and dropped the carb from 750 to 600 thinking maybe cut some power to fit in AI.....nope.... gained 2rwp and TQ and the motor couldn't be much milder, already shifting at 6k or less I suspect it will run at least 2 more seasons for sure- so ST2 it is."

 

 

Aaron, Your 3100 lbs and 365 is 8.49 + .4 (for 275's) = 8.89 minus your under #.05 = 8.84 Good to go.

I know this is a while back, but bugs me!

Because this is almost me, 3100, 370, 275's and minus .05=8.72

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R6's...2970lbs at 324hp... corrected I should be at 8.45:1 so I was fairly over weight.

 

I don't have anything for the front running Z06 except for being there at the end and not making mistakes.

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Wow, that's cool.

 

My cals have you 9.46

Start unadj 9.16 + .4 (275) = 9.56 - .1 (wt) = 9.46

..unless you have something I don't know about, then you need approx 352 rwhp, which would put you at 8.73 adj.

 

BTW, good job at Miller. You were my hero! Driver means a lot, I would just try to gain a few more hp or tq and call it good.

Thanks for sharing.

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Wow, that's cool.

 

My cals have you 9.46

Start unadj 9.16 + .4 (275) = 9.56 - .1 (wt) = 9.46

..unless you have something I don't know about, then you need approx 352 rwhp, which would put you at 8.73 adj.

 

BTW, good job at Miller. You were my hero! Driver means a lot, I would just try to gain a few more hp or tq and call it good.

Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Yeah, I need to get a set of the new Twisted Wedge heads for the car to get any more power out of it. Would like to see 350rwhp but just don't have $2k to drop on it right now. It would require pulling the motor and if I do that, I am going to go ahead and freshen the shortblock which isn't much money for rings and bearings...but there is the temptation to build a stroker motor then and take advantage of no torque limits. It would also kill the chance of selling the car as a legal AI car....but apparently that doesn't matter anymore in AI....

 

Nice thing was that basically bolting on the Hoosiers (1.5 yr old scrubs I had laying around) netted a 2.2 second lap time decrease...NO other changes to the car since having it on track at Miller in September. Can't wait to get this new set of 10 week old Hoosiers on the car for Hallett....or the two tires I won for just one race!

 

Thanks for the kudos at miller....had Tommy made it more evident his problem was MAJOR instead of just sucky...I'd like to think I would have won that race! That's racing though!

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Hey Guy's- Actually at the time I started this post I was refering to my situation about running AI class where at 365hp I would have to weigh in at 3467lbs +..post race with the 9.5:1 hp/wt rule they run in AI - and the car was going over the scales at 3153lbs post race currently so I was going to have to put 315lbs of weight in the car to be legal in AI- of course this much balast is illegal- so I decided to run ST2 - stick to the 8.7:1 rule in case I decided to run bigger tires at some point and went across the scales at Mid Ohio at 3185lbs post race and even though I hurt the motor I guess I got credited with 2nd place? Rudy got the Win possibly due to a DQ...not sure don't quote me, never really looked into it- too focused on fixing the motor for the rest of the season- so all in all ST2 was and is a good home for my Mustang in it's current configuration.

 

Aaron

#20 Mustang ST2

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Aaron, Sorry, now that makes sense.

I got into the same situation and now looking forward to ST2 for the contingency (tires) after my 710's wear out. I like this class, very simple rule book, run what tire I want, etc.

Matt, can you imagine, what it would have been w/new A6's? That is remarkable with old tires. Love that story!

Tires mean so much.

I got thinking the other day while sitting in grid w/another club (tire open class). All I saw was full slicks, A6's, A7's, Good Years, 710's, etc and I still had my RA1's on, huge disadvantage, like I brought a knife to a gun fight....machine guns at that!

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Aaron, Sorry, now that makes sense.

I got into the same situation and now looking forward to ST2 for the contingency (tires) after my 710's wear out. I like this class, very simple rule book, run what tire I want, etc.

Matt, can you imagine, what it would have been w/new A6's? That is remarkable with old tires. Love that story!

Tires mean so much.

I got thinking the other day while sitting in grid w/another club (tire open class). All I saw was full slicks, A6's, A7's, Good Years, 710's, etc and I still had my RA1's on, huge disadvantage, like I brought a knife to a gun fight....machine guns at that!

 

actually, after looking at my picture from Utah in GRM and then a picture of Rusty's car in the July 5.0 Mustangs and fast fords, I will NEVER run an RA1 again. the tire rolls under so much I don't see how it stays on the rim. I had an RA1 come off the rim in a VERY high G turn at TWS last year on the warm up lap and did a ton of damage to the spitter/nose on my car. Never again.

 

Also, as far as the tire to have....it's the R100 from Hoosier. A 350Z that was running 54's and 55's at TWS dropped to mid 50.X's going to the R100. He was running R6's....

 

I am also considering going to the R100's (price will make difference) and not worrying about the extra 25-30 rwhp to get to the front of ST2. The Z driver is supposed to report back about longevity at the next event.

 

 

Oh, and yeah. Liking the ST2 rules because dashes aren't required!

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