Jump to content

3 Spec3's, 3 Cages, All different


VaTechM3
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...

this is one i did for robert chang about a year ago it is a very compettive car...and very stiff...the car is white now and races out of active autoworks..in fla ..my pricing is about the same...i am near pbir in fla racecarbuilders.com 772 219 9917 i have been doing chassis and roll cages professionally full time for 10 years now and have done over 400 cars ..if you are in fla and need a cage let me know...

 

000_0137.jpg

 

000_0120.jpg

 

000_0121.jpg

 

000_0123.jpg

 

100_3091.jpg

 

000_0139.jpg

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure why everyone is landing them on the rear bulkhead..it isnt the most solid mounting point.. for a stiff chassis..it should be on the "frame" if you will.... i know they are unibody but there is still a stiff area near the shocks..the shock s what you are trying to controle unfortunatley everyone copies one another even it it isnt correct...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
not sure why everyone is landing them on the rear bulkhead..it isnt the most solid mounting point.. for a stiff chassis..it should be on the "frame" if you will.... i know they are unibody but there is still a stiff area near the shocks..the shock s what you are trying to controle unfortunatley everyone copies one another even it it isnt correct...

 

 

In these cars the shocks are not what you are trying to control in the rear as they are not weight-bearing. It is possible to make a claim that running the downtubes to the spring pick-up point is a legitimate option, however doing so will require a very long downtube (weaker) at a much great angle (weaker). So instead, running to the rear bulkhead, which is a unibody structuring point, is the best option as it provides additional bracing to key area in the rigidity of the vehicle AND provides the necessary access for other cage bars to be connected (single node).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure why everyone is landing them on the rear bulkhead..it isnt the most solid mounting point.. for a stiff chassis..it should be on the "frame" if you will.... i know they are unibody but there is still a stiff area near the shocks..the shock s what you are trying to controle unfortunatley everyone copies one another even it it isnt correct...

 

This made sense to me also. Was recommended to me by my cage builder (Piper Motorsport).

 

Jon makes good points about angle (but is the angle in bulkhead setups really better? or is it more horizontal?) and length. But this doesn't matter if the tube goes through the mounting point. I guess what my reasoning is that you might have a stronger angle and length of pipe, but it's being judged by the weakest link, which I believe is the chassis mounting point at the bulkhead.

 

That's my 2 cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand both arguments. Spec3 springs are pretty darn soft, so making the chassis as stiff as possible really doesn't benefit our cars as much as those with hefty spring rates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

either way you want the chassis as stiff as possible so the suspension can controle everything...they way they have everything triagulated it is like a ralley cage...but it adds weight as well ...the bmw shown he only wanted 1 diagonal i usually put an x in the reat...and allways and tie to the "frame" as close to the shock springs as i can...that is where all the force is being applied...as for stiffness the a pillar bar and windshield bars are welded allthe way downand across and the door structure is very stiff..thei car is very cometitive ...

 

this is a zr 1 i did recently...nice car the aluminum frame was a pta but but the cage is right over the spring shocks..

 

100_4013-1.jpg

 

ths is another vett did recently

 

100_4511.jpg

 

100_4443.jpg

 

100_4441.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You said they were in Corvettes, but I'm curious...

 

100_4013-1.jpg

 

Doesn't this go against CCR 15.6.6? "The main hoop must consist of not more than four (4) bends maximum, totaling one hundred eighty (180) degrees +/- ten (10) degrees."

 

100_4511.jpg

 

CCR 15.6.7 states "One (1) diagonal brace shall be used in the same plane as the main hoop. The diagonal should be one continuous path; meaning that it must conform to Diagrams 15.6.7a or 15.6.7b." Your diagonal braces in both pics above aren't like that; what's the reasoning behind the bent "feet" where they meet the main hoop at the top?

 

Thanks for clarifying,

 

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

th corvette posses some unique challenges ..when doing a cage in one...it is impossible to get the main hooop 2 inches above the drivers head..with out putting the hoop on the outside of the car because of the way the roof slopes down just behind the drivers head....and there is no head clearance even without a helmet anywhere in that carif you are taller than 5'11" or have tall hair you hair hits the roof without a helmet or roll bar and padding there...so the extra bends help get every bit possible ..that is just a roll bar ..and rules really dont apply the same..but even if it werent.. if you read all of ...it you can do it like that if the tubing is the next higher weight class which it is...

 

the rest of the rule reads..the diagonal has to land within 12 inches of the corner.. at the landing it there gives more room for the seat back..where the head retraint goes a little more to the rear it also suppports the middle of the main hoop span ...making the top of the triangle a little more protective of both sides of the drivers head...so it it stronger ..

 

the curved foot .is the way i do my joint..it is double thick over about a 6 to 8 inch span this gives the weld a greater contact surface and also adding strength over the drivers head...which it does...and and it looks better..

 

as i said a corvette is and extremely diffuicult car to do a cage in...the is so small inside..and the way the drivers sit in them with the big bulkhead right behind the seat..and the way the roof line is on the inside of the car ... the hoop has to be a little different just to be able to get a driver and a seat in the car..and get it as close to the rules as possible..yes ..the text book is good..but sometimes you have to do what you have to do..the tech inspectors know this...they cant give me crap about it not being 2 inches above his helmet if it is touching the roof skin..

 

after 8 years under my own name and 10 in the business and almost 400 cages i know what will work pass tech and be safe ...i have never had one fail a tech inspection or fail in an incident....and i have had a few tested in crashes over 100 mph at this point..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Guys, be super diligent about selecting your cage installer. I read everything I could, did what I thought was due diligence, but still got taken. A poor cage installer, if he is still around, has been done more bad cages than you have bought. So, he has an advantage of knowing what to say and how to hide things.

 

www.Motorsports-group-sucks.com

 

My new cage is in and the car is no worse for the wear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, be super diligent about selecting your cage installer. I read everything I could, did what I thought was due diligence, but still got taken. A poor cage installer, if he is still around, has been done more bad cages than you have bought. So, he has an advantage of knowing what to say and how to hide things.

 

http://www.Motorsports-group-sucks.com

 

My new cage is in and the car is no worse for the wear.

 

AWSOME..GLAD TO SEE CUSTOMERS SHEDING THE LIGHT ON THE BS PEOPLE THAT PRETEND THEY KNOW HOW TO DO CAGES...GENERAL RACE PREP SHOPS GENERALLY ARENT THE BEST FOR A CAGE..

AFTER LOOKING AT THE PICTURES ..ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW ..

 

JAY HAS BEEN AROUND...HE WORKED FOR ORBIT SOEMTHING HAPPENED..THEN HE WAS RTR SOMETHING HAPPENED...THEN I DNT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM FOR AWHILE NOW I KNOW ..MOTORSPORTS GROUP HARD TO OUT RUN A REPUTATION.....

 

I KNOW HE USED TO SUB SOME WORK OUT ..I KNOW OF QUITE A FEW REPUTABLE SHOPS IN THE AREA WONT WORK FOR HIM AMYMORE INCLUDING MYSELF...

 

JUST REMEMBER A CAGE IS KINDA LIKE A TATTOO...

IT IS GENERALLY WITH THE CAR FOR LIFE AND ONCE IT IS IN IT IS VERY HARD TO REMOVE...

 

SO ASK AROUND ASK AROUND..AND LOOK HARD AT PORTFOLIOS .IF YOU SEE A CAR GETTING A CAGE INSTALLED LOOK IN THE BACK GROUND ??? IS IT THE SAME SHOP OR EQUIPMENT YOU SEE IN THE SHOP YOU ARE STANDING IN...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have posted this esle where on the forum..but

 

..for those looking to get a cage installed weather you live in fla or not it might help prevent things like above..because he isnt the only one like that... i cut a cage out of a bob bonderaunt car and half ot the tubes wernt welded..and you could get to them....there is an asembly order to get it in safe..

 

i really try and run my shop as prfessional as possible and do what i say i will when i say ill do it ...i have 18+ pages

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24399

in the florida section saying i do..

 

unfortunaty i keep hearing horrible stories at the track about expieriences people have with roll cage guys... just posting this to help people be aware of what to look /lookout for..when choosing a cage builder ..be aware there are alot of back woods cage guys..out there they tell you what you want to hear but dont deliver..and have no business doing roll cages putting peoples lives a risk and some of these are so called "professional shops" i would like nothing more than to run these black sheep of my business ..out of business..

 

a roll cage is kinda like a tattoo it will be with the car for the rest of its life..you wouldnt got to the tatoo shop just because it is right down the street..or cheap you go to who is good..and has a good reputation..and you can see a nice portfolio

 

when the time arrives that you are considering putting a cage in your car.. it is a big decision ...it is no longer going to be that street car..believe me when i say i understand the reservation in doing so most cages i see leave alot to be desired..but it doesnt have to be like that...unfortunatley yes a roll cage could be the worst thing you ever did to your car... or something that is just there you dont even notice....depending on how it is done ,,unfortunatley once it is in... it is in... it would be very diffcult to remove and redo...i am not saying everything i have ever done is perfect but i do try ..i would put any 10 of my cages up against 10 of anyone elses..take a close look at most of the cages at the track you can see a difference in how they fit compared to what you see here.....

 

just saying when that day comes take the time to so choose your shop carefully..me being in the business..having worked in other shops..knowing a little bit what is out there...hearing what i hear from my customers for the last 10 years... just a few things to look /look out for...

 

if at all possible go to the shop and meet the builder in his shop before you take your car to him ..if he does this type of work for a living he doesnt need to see it..to know what he needs to do..

 

when selecting a shop look for referances and a healthy protfolio..pay close attension to how everything fits..in all he cars..i have 5 books of pictures you can look at..and that isnt all of them.. i dont need to show you 5 of the same car..in 5 colors.....take notice of the shop in the background... is it there shop and or equipment in the background ..yes sometimes we move..i have seen pictures of cars in my shop on other peoples web sites.. pay paticularly close attension if they are new or have a limited portfolio..

 

talk with people they have worked for if possible..make sure they got there car back in a reasonable amount of time..look at the work the welding..ect..pictures are pictures ..real life is when you truely apreciate someones craftsmanship..or hacking it in..pm any of the guys you see there cars here at the track or on my site..

 

is it what they do full time??? or is it a part time gig??? or supplimental to there core business??? if it isnt what they do for a living..be careful ...i have been dong this full time for 12 years and 10 under my own name..and over 400 cars under my belt..i do work for brumos ..champion motorsports..and extreme speed the patron team as well as counless local racers..

 

that race car prep shop is fine for plumbing wiring and suspension....but probably isnt the best choice for your cage ...if they say they do it in house ??? are they going to buy some ill fitting kit and weld it in or are they going to custom bend it for your car..to your specs..to fit you?? every driver and car is a little different... the cage needs to be taylord to you..if they are truly doing it in house..you should see benders knotchers and a tubing rack in the shop.. even at that they probably prep shops usually only do a few a year..even in the slower times we are having i am still doing 40 cars a year have been as high as 75 a year..go to a roll cage specialist...most prep shops sub that type of work out because it is very dirty.....then who knows who is doing your car...

 

realize price isnt everything..roll cage prices have been about the same for 15 years now..what was the labor rate 15 years ago .it is a tough business.. look for a fair price..understand extra bars and extra work should be charged for..if they are cheaper there is a reason...there isnt the profit margin in this business to give big discounts..it is very labor intensive..

 

just because the shop down the street doesnt make it the best choice.. i have cars transported to me all the time..from hours away because of the reputation and quality of work i do..you drive to the tracks ..take the time drive to a reputable qualified chassis shop ..

 

even in this slow time..i still have a short back log...because of my following and reputation ...if you can get right in ..they dont have any work...there may be a reason....or even worse if you show up and the shop has 10 or 15 cars sitting there in differnt states of completion..that may look impressive..it is a HUGE red flag. if he only has 1 or 2 employees your car may end up sitting in the back collecting dust with the rest of them..he may have just needed your deposit..

 

small shops are fine ..they have very tight quality controle there reputation is everything to them and they work hard to keep it good...the owner is probably going to be the one doing your car..but they should only have the cars in the shop they are currently working on...possibly one ready for delivery...or next in line. those big shops take a steady flow of massive amounts of work to sustain..i have been 3500 sq ft and had 3 employes ..took massive work just to keep the overhead paid.

 

you should not expect the chassis shop to work without a deposit.. it isnt good practice in any business to work without a deposit..a typical deposit is about half the expected bill ..with the rest do upon completion...if they want it all up front be careful...or if they ask for more money ..after the initial deposit..havent started your car...get your money back and get out...if it is an exceptionally large job..say over 10,000 something like a tube chassis .. i will ask for another 25% when the job is about 1/2 complete..

 

typical drag race chassis shops usually use ERW tubing..it is leagal for NHRA be careful..it is illeagal for road race caes ..it can split open in an accident...and you cant really tell after it is painted..DOM is more expensive..i have even been i shops where they uses water pipe..make sure they know exactly what they need to be using..if they are a drag race specific shop ..they know how to bend cages and weld ...i do molly TIG welded drag race chassis as well ....but started my career working for orbit .. my heart has allways been with road racing... some shops dont really know where to begin with a road race cage..again look at the portfolio

 

is the shop a mess ..yes, they do get messy during the day but is it this prodject and todays mess or 5 prodjects worth and weeks mess..if there are parts and lunch scattered all over and you cant see the tops of the benches.and the floor looks as though it hasnt been swept in a month ..beware..it should be reasonably clean and organised...

 

once you have selcted a cage guy..there are a few things you should be aware of in dealing with chassis shops...you do have a part in the outcome of you cage..

 

if possible the roll cage should be done before any paint...i allways say my wife doesnt put on her makeup then get in he shower there is an order to things...unfortunately with race cars.at this level that isnt how it usually goes down..it is crazy dirty job you will have to clean your car when it is done...i vaccume them a few times in the process and they still need cleaned when i am all done...wax it before you drop it off so the metal dust isnt right on your paint..and dont let it get wet before you wash and clay bar it..after you pick it up....the metal dust will rust ...i tape off all the windows and tops of the fenders if i have to work over them ..your shopp should as well those sparks off the grinder will embed themselves in your glass...

 

understand those beautiful pro cars start life as a race car...empty no wiring no glass nothing inside of the car..sometimes they are acid dipped and stich welded ..then when they are caged they go to the body shop and get painted inside and out..i understand most of us dont have that budget...the welding sparks are going to leave burn marks on your floor nothing you can really do about it..i put a welding blaket down to minimize it but they still find there way ...just realize the extent the pros go to to get the look you see...those guys spend 10,0000 getting the car preped a tig welded molly cage and it all painted..it is all in the finishing...after the cage guy.

 

if he asks you to remove the interior before it arrives..do so..dont expect him to do it for free..it takes almost as long to deal with the interior as to do the cage...once you are putting a full roll cage in it ...admit it is a race car..remove the ac and interior..you arnt getting the best of both worlds you are getting the worst...a heavy race car..with a cage that is closer to you than it needs to be...and a street car...that you look silly climbing in and out of ..you can still drive it up to get ice cream or the ocasional street romp or car hang out without an interior..but once you start racing you wont want to romp on the street anymore..and you wont want the weight of the stuff in the car weight is everything in a race car...but the weight of a roll cage is over ridden buy the stiffness it gives the car.. most customers acually pick up speed after insalling a cage..be careful the first time out after installing a cage ..that you dont over correct ..the car is going to be much more responsive...

 

if you sent the car on a transporter but "forgot" to give the driver the deposit ..send it when you say you are going to for the amount you agreed to...

 

keep his attitude right..buy doing your part..and give him the opportunity and the funds to do the best job that can be done..

 

i would hope you would at least give me consideration..and an opportunity to bid the job..but if you do for whatever reason .watch out for these things..they are all out there..

 

thanks and i hope this helps people have better expieiences with the roll cage guys....

 

anthony breon

racecarbuilders.com

 

772 219 9917

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...