CWeber Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Is there some way to request a classification for a 2010 TDI Golf? It is 140hp but the current classification only allows for up to 2006 Golf TDI in TTH (which is 1.9 and 90 hp instead of 2.0 at 140hp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 They should give the car a provisional class for 2010 and then add it to the rules in 2011. Contact Greg Greenbaum, the national director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 okay, thanks email sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hey Chris! TTH ? ? ? ? So it's slower than a TTG Honda CRX-HF? Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getfast Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hmmmm. Although it has "only" 140 horsepower, it also has 236 lb/ft of torks and a 6-speed. It also has standard "sport" suspension and stock 17's that make it feel much like a new GTI (I have driven both, although not back-to-back.) On the flip side, I believe it is several hundred pounds heavier than the older Golf TDI. In my head it should end up 7 points lower than where-ever the new GTI ends up, maybe? Although a TDI is noticeably slower than a GTI from 0-60, the performance difference around a roadcourse wouldn't be as significant... My opinion of course, Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hey Chris! TTH ? ? ? ? So it's slower than a TTG Honda CRX-HF? Wow! TTH was the 1.9 90hp TDI.... My thoughts are this 140hp one at 3000 pounds is in TTG to start but I'll have to wait to hear back from the National Time Trial person. The 0-60 is rated at about 8 seconds on my 2010 TDI Golf IIRC. We will still be running the 95 TTF or TTE (depending on weight/tire size) Infiniti g20 (also rated at 140hp ironic enough) but this could be an interesting car to bring to an event or 2 just to see what it can do ..my new daily driver.. might be fun on the track.. never know till you try, right? plus it's always fun to see an oil burner on the track, isn't it? ..and while I'm waiting for my spec miata to get fixed, thought it could be fun to time trial the golf at an event or 2 (then it's back to w2w for me!) ...but if the Infiniti breaks and the TDI is all set up for TT, nice back up car to have at the track with 2 of us there on weekends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Also reflash is a free mod so out of the box it's gonna be 170ish hp and probably 270ish tq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Also reflash is a free mod so out of the box it's gonna be 170ish hp and probably 270ish tq okay? ...and a GTI and/or a 1.9 TDI can do the same free ECU upgrade (I know of someone with 170hp 2002 TDI golf as an example) BUT no freakin way I'd touch the ecu and void my warranty.. 100% stock it stays (only thing I'd change for TT is front brake pads and tires!) ...and if others went with an 'ecu mod' (which isn't even available yet as far as I know for this generation) it isn't really 'free' because you have to factor in a HP to weight ratio as of 2009 so it would probably bump someone to another class anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 just because YOU won't change it doesn't meant the base class should neglect to factor in those potential gains. Yeah there is the hp/weight cap idea, but, by and large no cars should be very close to them as they're only there to catch extreme outliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Isnt that why the now have the +5 assesment for all forced induction cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 just because YOU won't change it doesn't meant the base class should neglect to factor in those potential gains. Yeah there is the hp/weight cap idea, but, by and large no cars should be very close to them as they're only there to catch extreme outliers. Not really. The cars that are built to the rules are right up to it. I'm within 60lbs or 5 hp of the class limit, and I know the front runners in GL PTE are closer than I am... right on the edge. I think there are more cars that are very close to these class limits than many suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 60lbs or 5hp is not "right on the edge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Okay. Well, trying to tell me I should be classified the same as a 2010 GTI is a joke... if you take a 2010 GTI and a 2010 TDI on the same roadcourse with the same tires and driver, the GTI will win hands-down every time.. I'd even bet more like a 5 to 7 second difference at least on bigger HP road courses like Road America. And lets not forget my TDI is speed limited at 113mph I test drove them both back to back and there is indeed a rather noticeable difference in the performance dept but I didn't want a premium fuel car again (already had that with the R32 which only saw the track ONCE since it was also my daily driver comfort car) So I am not interested in being a 'serious' competitor with the TDI as my passion is with w2w/spec miata and I would only bring it out 1 or 2 events for the season. The TDI is my daily driver and I have zero interest in tweaking and modding the snot out of it to try to win awards, cheat in class, etc. I also have my doubts about many other people prepping a 2010 TDI golf for Time Trials (gut feeling anyway). I'd be shocked if 1 or 2 others appear somewhere in the country. As it is we seem to have the only Infiniti G20 in TimeTrials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 again - just because you're not going to mod it doesn't mean it should be base-classed such that it could be an overdog when prepared properly. If you're doing it for fun the class shouldn't matter that much anyway, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 I think you are missing the point. How is it fair to anyone else who MIGHT want to be competitive in a 2010 TDI that a 2010 GTI *200hp turbo from factory 4cyl (which can also be tweeked just as easily) without the same factory limited top speed. ...and what if I try one event and have so much fun in my TDI that I decide I did want to get 'more serious'? I would never bother if I'm told I start in the same exact classification as a 2010 GTI is the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Since people may not know the full stats, here they are: 2010 GTI 4-cylinder, in-line, turbocharged with intercooled and direct fuel injection 0-60 mph (Manual/Automatic) 6.8 seconds / 6.7 seconds Top Speed (Manual/Automatic) 130 mph (estimated) / 130 mph (estimated) Horsepower (SAE) @ rpm 200 @ 5,100-6,000 (147 kW @ 5,100-6,000) Maximum torque, lbs - ft @ rpm 207 @ 1,800-5,000 (280 Nm @ 1,800-5,000) 2010 2.5 Gasoline engine Golf 2.5L, 5 cylinder, in-line 0-60 mph (Manual/Automatic) 7.8 / 8.1 seconds Top Speed (Manual/Automatic) 125 / 125 mph Horsepower 170hp @ 5700 (125 @ 5700) Maximum torque 177lb/ft @ 4250 (240 Nm @ 4250 rpm) and then my 2010 TDI: 2,0l, 4 cylinder, in-line, turbocharged direct injection, common rail 0-60 mph (Manual/Automatic) 8.6 / 8.6 seconds Top Speed (Manual/Automatic) 125 / 125 mph* Horsepower 140hp @ 4.000 (125kW @4.000) Maximum torque 236lb/ft @ 1.750-2.500 rp320 Nm @ 1.750-2.500 rpm * top speed limited to 113mph for USA models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 No, you're missing the point entirely. Stop trying to argue so hard and listen to what I'm saying. 1.) first off its not classified and all that has been offered is speculation. Keep your shirt on until Greg weighs in. 2.) All this "oh it doesn't make power" and "oh it has a speed limiter" is completely BS as all of it can be taken care of with the "free" ECU reflash. It should be classified with gains from free mods taken into account just like every other car out there. 3.) Why should existing competitors suddenly face an uphill battle due to an improperly classified car? Why not class it right so that we're all on the level playing field that we've all worked hard to create and maintain? (Right in this case means exactly where it should be, no higher, no lower) 4.) stop trying to pull the wool so far over everyone's eyes - have you seen the laptimes those TDI Cup Cars turn? 5.) for someone doing this for fun you sure are getting bent out of shape and competitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 60lbs or 5hp is not "right on the edge" In what planet is that not on the edge? 5hp is an easy difference to make with my engine and about 30 degrees difference in ambient temperature. I made weight by 2-3 lbs each time I went across the scales last year. I don't really want to be any closer to the TTD/PTD class limit. Or to put it another way, it's not worth it to me to be any closer to a DQ. Is 60 lbs less going to make me a second faster around the track? No. Is an extra 5hp going to do that? Considering that's about .33% of my power output... probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I'd kill to be within 5hp of the class limit for my car's weight, but, my hp/weight reclass came back a bit short of that. Of course you need to be as close as you dare to your car's weight (and hp if reclassed), but your hp/weigh reclass is also that close to the D limit?? Interesting... If you're chasing gains of a full second still, damn, not far along on car development are we? Considering how tight the m.o.v's at Nationals were in some classes... Edited January 20, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) well, 5hp makes a noticable difference in Spec Miata anyway.. if you are 5hp down from a competitor because your engine is more tired, you notice it trying to keep up in a straight-away with your better hp counterpart! (For example, my specmiata is a tired stock engine -- not tweeked like others and not a newer crate motor so when I'm nose to tail through a turn with someone and coming out of that turn going down the straight away, they will pull ahead of me and that's just he way it is... cause I didn't spend $6k to $10K on my motor is the bottom line) but in rain races, the hp difference is as big a deal (thus I was able to qualify 2nd in the rain but that has never happened to me in the dry) Edited January 20, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 comparing TT to SM is about as useful as comparing apples and dogs fwiw. If you want to talk other classes that incorporate multiple types of cars then you're on the right track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well, I will be curious to hear from Greg on where my TDI starts out. I don't expect it to be in TTH like the former 1.9 version but I don't expect it to start out in TTF like the turbo GTI either so we shall see I guess.... I guess the classification will dictate if I put on some 205 50 15s Toyos from my specmiata to use or if I can go with some 225 45 15s from our g20... cause I was planning on using tires we already have that are more 'tired' for this TT thing... Since the R888s won't be allowed use past 2 races in specmiata this year, I thought my leftover R888s (that don't wear out edges so more ideal for FWD heavy pigs like the golf) ....so we shall see!.. we shall see! I just know I won't be using my street tires for this because after 1 15 minute TT session, they would chuck out the edges and be useless (too expensive to replace IMHO vs. using what we already have) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 if you haven't emailed him already I would go ahead and do that - will get a faster response that way hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I'd kill to be within 5hp of the class limit for my car's weight, but, my hp/weight reclass came back a bit short of that. Of course you need to be as close as you dare to your car's weight (and hp if reclassed), but your hp/weigh reclass is also that close to the D limit?? Interesting... If you're chasing gains of a full second still, damn, not far along on car development are we? Considering how tight the m.o.v's at Nationals were in some classes... My reclass put me about 60-70lbs from the limit, or about 14.7 with the class limit at 14.25. Sounds like a long ways away but it really isn't. One of the good benefits of reclassing via hp/weight is that you can be right at the weight limit every time you go across the scales. I think I am still leaving about 1.5-2 seconds around Mid Ohio. Part of that was my switch to Hoosiers (the Hankooks were about a second faster in perfect conditions) and the other part is my brakes. Of course it's not the driver Couple that with the fact that we drink too much beer at the track and don't keep any records and... car development, what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 if you haven't emailed him already I would go ahead and do that - will get a faster response that way hope that helps! yup, emailed him yesterday.. haven't heard back anything yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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