f1honda Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 nice, so if you go with Stance AL+Pro, that will take off 4 points. and i can throw the cat back on to take another point off. that will put me back in TTC. I'd think you'd get more benefit removing the intake snorkel than reinstalling the cat, both in terms of performance and weight. ff2skip, thanks for the recommendation, i'll probably do just that. the snorkel really only helps to reduce engine bog in slow moving traffic. not sure how much of a benefit it has with ram air at high speed. but if i remove the snorkel, i would have to put the stock hood back on also. because the vents on the hood are one point combined with the snorkel. is that correct or can i leave the vented hood on? the test pipe is probably worth 5hp and the snorkel about 2-3 hp at speed. test pipe drops weight and snorkel adds weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Since this hasn't been directly answered, even though that lip doesn't do much for aero, it's +3. I'd take it off to get those points back to help get you down to TTC. Even the F20C2 engine doesn't have the torque to keep up with other cars in B. are you sure that the lip will be +3. i can remove it if need to. can you point to which line under the aerodynamics section that reference this? thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundguydave Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 2010 TT Rules: "AERODYNAMICS: 1) Add, replace, or modify front fascia or air dam +3 (except as provided for in 13), 25), 57) of the No-Points Modification list) (note: Additional points must be assessed below for any component of the added/replaced/modified fascia or air dam that performs the functions listed in 2) and 4) below) 2) Add, replace or modify a single front splitter/spoiler/wing/foil +3 (note: This part may extend horizontally past the side of the vehicle no greater than five inches. If any portion of this part that protrudes from the side of vehicle is not parallel to the ground, then additional points must be assessed for canards in 4) below.) (note: No material or part may extend the vertical reach of the OEM front fascia without taking fascia modification points above.) 3) --deleted for clarity-- 4) Add or modify canards/winglets (includes portions of an added/modified/replaced fascia that provide a downward force other than that listed in 2) above) +2 You have to remember that the base model is the starting point for all modifications. If it's not on the base model, or is available by checking an option box on the order form, then it costs points. In other words, if the lip is factory-OE in a base trim model with NO options, then it's no points. Otherwise, it costs points. The real name of the game is to take a rule and run with it to the limit. If you have to take +3 for the fascia, then you might as well fab up a functional air dam and get some real benefit. Otherwise, pull the lip off and take no points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 hey is it the spoon snorkel copy? I've ran them they are good for the heatsoak and I felt like the car had more grunt off the line and more intake noise but I felt like I lost speed over 100mph at the track. I run at Roebling regularly and when I ran with the snorkel I couldn't hit 125 on the straight, I was hitting 123 max that day. It could have been other factors but since I took it off I don't remember having that problem. Maybe something to look out for I realy don't think the snorkel for the track is worth it over a testpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 i think it was a J's copy from ebay. it didn't fit under the hood, so i modified it to fit and also widen the area where the kink for the radiator support. i dyno tested with the snorkel on and off and there was no power loose. so i don't think there was any restriction with the modify snorkel. i'm not sure if there's any gain with the ram air effect. also, the resonance baffle inside the intake air box has been cut out (when i got the car). would there be any points for that? i don't think it a power mod, just for sound i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 modifying the OEM part is still modifying... might as well make it worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 ^^ so i should be looking for an oem air intake box then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 ^Yes, you should. Perhaps someone in your area would swap an unmodified box for yours. Regarding front aero, I take +3 points for the little R-package lip on the front of my Miata. It's only slightly larger than the S2k front lip and doesn't do much, but it isn't the base configuration, so I take the points. I would be better off installing a real front air dam for those same +3 points, which I plan to do when I have some time to work on fabrication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 ff2skip, thanks for the recommendation, i'll probably do just that. the snorkel really only helps to reduce engine bog in slow moving traffic. not sure how much of a benefit it has with ram air at high speed. but if i remove the snorkel, i would have to put the stock hood back on also. because the vents on the hood are one point combined with the snorkel. is that correct or can i leave the vented hood on? the test pipe is probably worth 5hp and the snorkel about 2-3 hp at speed. test pipe drops weight and snorkel adds weight Very briefly, I believe venting the S2000 oem hood does more harm than good on the track. It's fine for sitting in traffic, but on the track I believe the increase in aero-drag outweighs the benefit of escaping air. Without any foil to redirect flowing air, the opening simply cause more turbulence before hitting the windshield. Our windshields are more erect than say a Miata. From a safety standpoint, this is great and an intregal part of the S's rollover protection. It does not, however, lend itself well to aerodynamics. Add the two together and the air struggles to regain adhesion(wrong word but hopefully you get the point) to the car's body lines. Vented hoods that have a deflector can better serve to help draw hot, engine bay air out at speed efficiently and simultaneously helping the flow of air hit a higher point on the windshield. How much impact does this have on aero? Don't know- I'm without those types of resources. In theory, it matters. All said, if you are going to take a point for the intake, you might as well exercise that one point to its fullest extent: ram air, vented, and whatever else you can think of. I regret selling my VS hood. It was functional and aesthetically pleasing. As was mentioned, shed the oem front lip. It's worth absolutely nothing. The car looks stupid without it, both it sure as heck isn't worth a single point functionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 ^^^ i've read through many posts and have seen both side of the arguments about the vented oem hood. neither side has convinced me that it's beneficial or detrimental to the aerodynamic at high speed. someone did datalog the engine bay temp and has shown that's it's cooler with the oem vented hood. but i would love to see some hard data pertaining to the effects of aero over the hood at high speed. in any case, i would have to put the stock hood back on because i have to take the snorkel off to drop one point. this brings up another question. since i put the snorkel on, i had to cut a hole on the air cover to the radiator. would someone protest about this hole. i guess i could make a panel and cover up the hole. i would like have access to the hole because i would keep the snorkel on for street and drive to the track. i would remove it at the track because it only takes 5 seconds to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Hey, by all means, run the oem vented hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 22, 2010 Author Share Posted February 22, 2010 are there any points for engine torque damper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 are there any points for engine torque damper? Maybe on cars that had torque! Don't know. Having been sc'd to 400 whp at one time and running a 2.5L stroker after that, they are not worth the money. They are definitely not worth it for a stock motor. I'm beginning to think winter has been toooooooo long for you. FWIW, I bested my previous best at VIR Full by over two seconds. Additions were a cage, 50lbs lighter, and a non-vented oem hood(heavier than previous hood). I'm still way off Renee's ungodly and gawdy record of 2:08, but I was thinking about your hood point-of-view. If you're running TT's the way they should be approached, engine temps will normally not be a huge concern. There really is no need to attack the course for a full session. Work on some sections if you need and then wait for or create some clean track. By doing this, you save on consumables. At the end of the session, use a fan to help cool the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share Posted February 23, 2010 LOL about the torque-less engine. i had the torque damper on the car when i was autocrossing. didn't want risk ripping the engine mounts with all the launches on r-comp i was just wondering about the points because i didn't want to take it out if i didn't have to. winter has been a little long this year. i love wrenching on the car, i think i'll going to replace all the bolt with stainless ones, j/k. i love the snow but i'm ready for it to go away and hit the track. congrats on your new setup and new track time. i saw pics of your cage on s2ki, it looks great. I'm registered with NASA North East but i would love to run a couple events with you guys at Summit Point since it's only 1.5 hours away. i probably can't register for TT in Mid-Atlantic though and have to do HPDE4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 congrats on your new setup and new track time. i saw pics of your cage on s2ki, it looks great. I'm registered with NASA North East but i would love to run a couple events with you guys at Summit Point since it's only 1.5 hours away. i probably can't register for TT in Mid-Atlantic though and have to do HPDE4. WhaT?! You're closer to SP than I am! You'd probably have to get a checkride in Grp #3 unless you have a TT license already. Our Grp#4 is for instructors. April is the next time we're at Summit. Try to make plans for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 are there any points for engine torque damper? got a picture? Would this be also known as a harmonic damper? As in something the accessory crank pulley would attach to or be part of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob O Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nope, just a damper contecting the block to the shock tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nope, just a damper contecting the block to the shock tower. Rob, way off topic, but there was a guy from Nashville at VIR this weekend- silver RX-7. Thought of you. weather was incredible for February and all the crap on either end of the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nope, just a damper contecting the block to the shock tower. so more like an engine mount then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted February 24, 2010 Members Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nope, just a damper contecting the block to the shock tower. By any chance do you know if this was a factory addition? (TSB or after the fact addition) I know VW did this on some of their 1985 GTi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ff2skip Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Nope, just a damper contecting the block to the shock tower. By any chance do you know if this was a factory addition? (TSB or after the fact addition) I know VW did this on some of their 1985 GTi's. It is strictly aftermarket. scroll down to view some decent pictures of one manufacturer's product. They all work the same: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=146182&highlight=engine+Damper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 congrats on your new setup and new track time. i saw pics of your cage on s2ki, it looks great. I'm registered with NASA North East but i would love to run a couple events with you guys at Summit Point since it's only 1.5 hours away. i probably can't register for TT in Mid-Atlantic though and have to do HPDE4. WhaT?! You're closer to SP than I am! You'd probably have to get a checkride in Grp #3 unless you have a TT license already. Our Grp#4 is for instructors. April is the next time we're at Summit. Try to make plans for it. i'm close to SP but unfortunately i'm over 6 hours from VIR. i got signed off for HPDE4 at the end of last year. i'm sending in my paper work for TT license this week. i think our region has such a small TT showing sometime, they combine TT with HPDE4. i probably can't make it to SP in April because it's the same weekend NorthEast has event at NJMP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 are there any points for engine torque damper? got a picture? Would this be also known as a harmonic damper? As in something the accessory crank pulley would attach to or be part of? it's a shock absorber that mounts from the engine to the chassis, to reduce engine twisting. it's the orange shocks that connects to the engine and the shock tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2k4TTC Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Just read through this and this is what I think. Lose the intake and go back to the stock box with a drop in K&N, Lose the strut tower brace(no need). Find a good header, and if its a track car run a 3in exhaust header back. These car's like a free flowing exhaust and make really good power with one, Get an AEM or Hondata K-pro. What I would do If I were building an s2000 for TTB 00-05, I would find a drive train from an 06-07 since the reflash is a freebie and that year motor make a lil more power than the older f20c and more torque. And just run it the same way I had my car in C trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1honda Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 thanks for the feedback. i'm going to stay in TTC and i'm maxed out in points. so EMS and header is not an option unless i remove more points. it's also a street car, so noise level and street-ability has to maintain. i don't have the budget at the moment to mod the car to be competitive in TTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.