Pads for 24 hours race

[bob-e]

I have a 2100 pound car on street tires. Gonna be racing 24 hours. Will have ducting. I noticed some companies sell an "endurance" pad like Ferodo DS3000, or PFC 97. Ferodos are out because they are WAY too expensive. Most guys are using Hawk Blues, but they are only lasting about 10 hours. Do "endurance" formulated pads last that much longer? Any good tips?

[bob-e]

nuttin'?

[ianacole]

We used Pagid yellows for our 25 hour race 2008 ... started on the pads I ran all season long and switched to new midway, then ran all of last season on those pads. We were quite pleased with the performance and the longevity. This is on a 2700 lb (with driver) FWD car.

[bob-e]

Thanks. Pricey, but if I only have to use one set, I can deal with it

[ianacole]

Thanks. Pricey, but if I only have to use one set, I can deal with it

 

An old racing addage comes to mind...

 

You can spend a lot a little, or a little a lot.

[bob-e]

AMen to that. Well Pagids are out anyway because they don't have them for my caliper. I can get Porterfield R4E and they are a couple hondo cheaper. Anyone tried those?

[richard migliori]

bob-e,

first off, check your strategy before buying pads or selecting pads. what track are you going to run the 24? In a 24 hour race, it is not about lap times but keeping out of the pits for anything! I first look at a regular run in the car (sprint) count my shifts and then begin to eliminate some and gears. ( we have TH down to 2 shifts per lap). Next is check your braking and brake pressures at every use. We learned to stay off the brakes and roll the car into turns and that increases pad life! Using tire to scrub the needed speed to enter the turns. ( a well balanced car allowed us to use 8 tires in a 25 hour race without falling lap times.) We have tried 5 different types of pads for endurance racing and found that the wilwood endurance pad should do the job for you all the way if you follow my suggested plan. My car runs 154-5's in the 25 and we can almost go all the way on one set of pads.

 

hth rm

[Gibscreen]

AMen to that. Well Pagids are out anyway because they don't have them for my caliper. I can get Porterfield R4E and they are a couple hondo cheaper. Anyone tried those?

 

Call Tim Gray at Porterfield (949-548-4470), tell him Rob Gibson from RJ Racing referred you, and ask him for some Raybestos ST43 compound pads for your car. They lasted us the full 25 Hours of Thunderhill in a Miata with about 30% pad left. And they felt great. Nice firm pedal with good modulation. If they don't have the ST43 for your car, they can either custom-make them or I'm sure he'll have other ideas.

[Trevor57]

We used the carbotech endurance pads. They lasted 24 hours, and were very nice. I don't care what pad use use if your drivers aren't using them properly.

[Hornswoggler]

We used the carbotech endurance pads. They lasted 24 hours, and were very nice. I don't care what pad use use if your drivers aren't using them properly.

 

Trevor, what would be some good techniques for using the brakes "properly" in an endurance setting? Go easy on them, i assume?

[Trevor57]

Thread back from the dead! Yes brake a little early, and with less than 100% force. My lap times were only about 2 secs a lap slower at "80%" than when I was trying to go as fast as possible. In fact we got a full 24 hour race, AND a 16 hour race on the same set, with a 2900 lb car, with low power.

[Gibscreen]

I didn't give any special instructions to my drivers. We used our ST43s for the 25 hours, a couple sprint races and they still have enough for another enduro. These things are amazing.

[TrackToys]

We used the carbotech endurance pads. They lasted 24 hours, and were very nice. I don't care what pad use use if your drivers aren't using them properly.

 

Trevor, what would be some good techniques for using the brakes "properly" in an endurance setting? Go easy on them, i assume?

Great question, Collin. I've not run a 24+ hour race, but helped on crew last year. Just thinking out loud, so it's all supposition... My guess is "properly" using the brakes is highly dependent upon the situation. An endurance race is still a race to P1, even if most of the head-to-head racing happens towards the end (in the last tenth).

 

Yes, it's important to stay out of the pits. You'll loose half a lap, or more, just entering and exiting. But, you still want to hit your target lap times for the duration of the race and maybe have something extra available (in the hardware at the end) to make, or defend against, a late charge. I think the overall winning lap time average at last year's 25 was around 1:57.5 (including cautions and pit stops) with a best lap of 1:47.22. That means, in order to contend for P1, you've got to have a better "average lap time" and your total pit stop time cannot be longer than your competitors (including changing pads, if needed).

 

Endurance racing is an exercise in stamina of all types, including brakes, brake fluid, and rotor life (let alone staying awake!). If you're ahead of schedule (target lap times) and you have time to change pads, you're in good shape if you need to do so. If you've been saving the car for the end (and are not out front), and you have to change pads, you might not have a shot at P1 unless the leading competitors are in the same boat.

 

I agree that rolling into the corners, scrubbing speed with tires, is a good idea to save brakes. Only experience will tell you if you're better off loosing fractions on corner entry and perhaps making an extra stop for tires, or taking the time to change pads. Of course, you'll use up tires with better brakes, too, but maybe a better wear pattern. It doesn't take long to change pads on many top-load calipers. But, the more time spent in the pits, the more mechanical operations you undertake, the more opportunity for human error as well.

 

Pull the pin, pop the clip, and out come the (hot) pads. The pistons need to be pressed

back far enough to put the new, thicker pads into the slots. Otherwise, piece of cake.

 

As stated above, I've not run in a 24+ hour race...just helped crew last year. So, I can't contribute to the answer regarding duration of pads. However, I have used Porterfield's with better than average results. I have at least 20 20-minute HPDE sessions (at about 75-80% threshold) and about 5,000 street miles on them with a VERY heavy car. The pads and cryo'd rotors are now ready to be replaced. BTW, I believe cryo-treating really helps rotor life...probably 40% in my application.

 

Have read good things about Carbotech and Cobalt (more so about Cobalt Friction recently). I am probably going to try Cobalt's next (XR2 front and XR5 rear).

 

I would be interested in knowing how to best keep track of the percentage of pad used (short of data acquisition). Looking at the edge, especially at night, it's hard to eyeball the percent remaining...especially through the dust. Is there a way to mark the edge of the pads? Maybe colors? Can any markings handle the heat? Maybe hash marks etched with a cut-off wheel? Maybe a pocket ruler and flashlight is the best. Any suggestions appreciated.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Guest

[Hornswoggler]

I have no enduro experience with XR2's, but they did not seem to last me very long w/ HPDE. THe stopping power was awesome tho!

[Gibscreen]

Cobalts are definitely not an enduro pad, at least not the XR3 and XR5. We barely got 2 sprint race weekends out of ours. And since they rivet the pad material to the backing plate, the last 1/8" of pad material can't be utilized.

[TrackToys]

Cobalts are definitely not an enduro pad, at least not the XR3 and XR5. We barely got 2 sprint race weekends out of ours. And since they rivet the pad material to the backing plate, the last 1/8" of pad material can't be utilized.

Oh, that's not good. I'll have to look into that further. The Carbotech's or ST43s might be a better choice to test next. How have the pads treated your rotors?

 

Any ideas on the best way to monitor the pad wear?

[Gibscreen]

Both the Carbotechs and ST43s are very rotor friendly.

 

We note the thickness of each pad when new, then we keep track of the amount of track time for a race weekend, and then we measure pad thickness afterward.

[TrackToys]

Both the Carbotechs and ST43s are very rotor friendly.

 

We note the thickness of each pad when new, then we keep track of the amount of track time for a race weekend, and then we measure pad thickness afterward.

Sounds like a logical process. I will try that. Thanks!