TT - 2005 RULES ???

[Neon2dmaX]

Greg: I have reviewed the new rules and it certainly seems that a lot of thought has gone into this rewrite. You as well as all the others that contributed should be applauded for a job well done.

 

In any event, there are some areas that may need clarification, some of which is based upon the various proposed rules that were presented prior to thie revisions being written.

 

In a prior post you indicated that a full (2+2) penalty would not be imposed for removal of carpet only... perhaps only 1 point. It that a matter that has been disregarded or does the local TT chairman have that discretion?

 

Does removal of AC alone bring a 1 point penalty?

 

Airbag removal = 0 points?

 

Battery: does a lightweight battery in the stock location carry a penalty? (rule looks like it penalizes relocation only.)

 

For purposes of weight reduction, does lexan/plexi count only when it replaces existing glass?

 

Re: Engine/Drivetrain: Does change from fuel injection to carb add a penalty? Does a change OEM down pipe include elimination of the cat converter? If so, where does emissions delete fit in?

 

Changed / added swaybars: is that +2 for either or both bars (e.g. front and/or rear)?

 

Thanks,

 

Neon2dmaX

[Greg G.]

First, for all of you not in the SoCal region that are wondering, the rules got final approval yesterday, and Jim will be posting them on the NASA website soon. I sent a copy by group e-mail to the SoCal guys. If any of you directors would like a copy now, just e-mail me, but again, they should be up soon. Also, everyone please remember that the rules were not written on stone tablets. Constructive comments, suggestions, and questions are always welcome. Since the TT and NASA-X rules are now separated, it might be a little easier to make changes as necessary. And although we don't want to make many changes in the middle of a season (for obvious reasons), the mechanism to do so does exist. It's a difficult task to come up with rules that basically take every car that was made in the last 40 years, add in any amount of modifications, and separate them out into 8 fair and equitable groups (and really only 7 functional groups). There will always be some cars that are near the high or low end of each group. Remember the goal of TT is to have fun, and make the competition as equal as possible. We changed the rules this time based on ideas and suggestions from TT Directors and drivers, and we can do it again if we need to. I think that you will find that a bunch of loopholes that guys were considering using in 2005 were also closed.

 

Dave,

Here are the answers to your questions:

 

1) Removal of carpet only would still be up to the local TT director to evaluate the extent of "gutting" done, but I certainly would not give it 2+2 points.

 

2) Removal of AC alone gets you zero points (your prior points about some of the same models coming with or without AC made sense, and the weight of AC alone just doesn't make that big a difference in the grand scheme of things). Removal of the heater core/HVAC blower assembly (that every car has), will be assessed 1 point.

 

3) Airbag removal = zero points....correct. Basic safety items don't get assessed points. Note also that we adopted the rule about the replacement seat that was discussed on this forum.

 

4) Correct about the battery. It was a compromise position. Any battery in the stock location is ok. Moving the battery to help with corner balancing/ wt. distribution gets you 1 point.

 

5) I'm not sure what you mean in your question about Lexan/Plexiglass. In what situation would it not be replacing existing glass?

 

6) Any changes of a carburetor, fuel rail, or injectors get 2 points. So, changing from to or from a carburetor would get 2 points assessed.

 

7) Changed OEM downpipe gets 1 point, and deleting the Cat would get another point (ie. emissions deletions).

 

Changed sway bars is for either or both bars still--2 points--no change.

 

Thanks for the questions.

[Hallster]

If I understand the rules correctly, it assigns equal points to all DOT-R tires. Tires like Hoosier's R3S04 and Kumho's V710 are in a different league when compared to other DOT-R tires.

 

I suggest allocating the same amount of points to these and other "next generation" DOT-R tires as the 'Non-DOT approved tires' recieve(.

 

Thanks,

 

Sean

[Hallster]

"3) Plus or minus sizing of wheels or tires (i.e. wheel/tire diameter) +1"

 

Do I take a point if I increase tire width only?

 

Thanks,

 

Hallster

[Greg G.]

Upsizing refers only to tire/wheel diameter. So, the answer is no. You only get points on width if you exceed the width of the stock fender. (If you put on aftermarket flared fenders, you should take points based on how far your aftermarket tires stick out past where the stock fender would have been).

 

As far as your other comment about tire types. Hoosier R3S04's and Kumho V710's are not as good as racing slicks. They are better than some other R-compound DOT tires during their first 5-6 sessions of life, but then drop off quickly after that. Most TT drivers will not be buying new sets of these tires every 5 sessions. Toyo RA-1's are good racing tires, and last longer. I hear people complain about this, then I see guys driving on Toyo's winning championships still. For now, these rules will stay as they are. Toyo's are clearly worth 5 points compared to stock street tires. To make any adjustments to this rule would require increasing the number of points for slicks, and then getting on the slippery slope of which R-compounds are better than others. (there are new ones coming out each year to compete with Hoosier, etc). Right now we don't need any more "class compression" at the upper end of the scale. Also, not that I care too much what other groups do, but just as an aside, other groups that I've seen class all DOT R-compounds the same as well.

[Hallster]

Upsizing refers only to tire/wheel diameter. So, the answer is no. You only get points on width if you exceed the width of the stock fender. (If you put on aftermarket flared fenders, you should take points based on how far your aftermarket tires stick out past where the stock fender would have been).

 

As far as your other comment about tire types. Hoosier R3S04's and Kumho V710's are not as good as racing slicks. They are better than some other R-compound DOT tires during their first 5-6 sessions of life, but then drop off quickly after that. Most TT drivers will not be buying new sets of these tires every 5 sessions. Toyo RA-1's are good racing tires, and last longer. I hear people complain about this, then I see guys driving on Toyo's winning championships still. For now, these rules will stay as they are. Toyo's are clearly worth 5 points compared to stock street tires. To make any adjustments to this rule would require increasing the number of points for slicks, and then getting on the slippery slope of which R-compounds are better than others. (there are new ones coming out each year to compete with Hoosier, etc). Right now we don't need any more "class compression" at the upper end of the scale. Also, not that I care too much what other groups do, but just as an aside, other groups that I've seen class all DOT R-compounds the same as well.

 

Okay. Thanks for clarrification on that.

 

Hallster

[Cobra-R]

The "Ford Mustang Cobra R" is classified in class B, while that is appropriate for the 2000 Cobra R, the 93 and 95 Cobra R are getting hit pretty hard with that classification.

 

Brian

[Greg G.]

Brian,

I'm looking over all of the base classifications right now, and I'll look into the earlier Cobra R's for you. Some base classification changes are coming soon, but I'm not sure if they will include a change here or not.

[FastSaleen]

Greg and Brian - just an opinion, but shouldn't the earlier Cobra R's be placed in TTC before upclass points are added in? That is where the OH/IN Region is starting my 1988 Saleen. Seems like a fair starting point since the base '93 Cobra R is very similar to the base '88 Saleen. After all, adding on 21 upclass points and running as a TTB car I won the Ohio/Indiana TTB championship with the Saleen.