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TurboShortBus

PBIR Time Trial entry list for April 24-25, 2010

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aceking66
Looks like you all might have another TTU entry, if I get my paperwork in and get approved for TT, as I am not doing the One Lap this year due to my Commercial rental business picking up. That is a good thing.

 

Peter

 

 

awesome i been wanting to see the GT2 go around to track!!! now if Ian just hurry up on putting to mini motor together so we could split the hotel!!!

 

chi

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Mrsideways

I give the mini pretty low percentage of being ready. Maybe Pete will let me borrow the M3 in TTC...

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Mrsideways
The lighting sucks but the mini is starting to get a bit wider...

gowide.JPG

 

 

 

Flares do not increase "track width".

 

It's the 10 inch wide wheels meant to fit in those flares that will do it.

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BlkGt3
I give the mini pretty low percentage of being ready. Maybe Pete will let me borrow the M3 in TTC...

 

Why would you want to drive an underpowered, worn out LSD, oil starving in sweepers, under tired on heavy rims M3??

 

Peter

 

Oh I forgot the floppy suspension.

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Mrsideways
I give the mini pretty low percentage of being ready. Maybe Pete will let me borrow the M3 in TTC...

 

Why would you want to drive an underpowered, worn out LSD, oil starving in sweepers, under tired on heavy rims M3??

 

Peter

 

Oh I forgot the floppy suspension.

 

Cause it would be a challenge.

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911s
It's the 10 inch wide wheels meant to fit in those flares that will do it.

 

Ian, Peter or whoever knows the answer,

 

Do you guys have any good info on increasing track and or tire width?

Is there a point of diminishing returns on going to fatter rubber?

I assume the wider rubber will offer more grip, but at what point does it negatively affect straight line speed, if at all.

Jimmy was afraid to ask, so I thought I would ask for him.

A 911 specific answer is fine with me.

 

Thanks

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Mrsideways
It's the 10 inch wide wheels meant to fit in those flares that will do it.

 

Ian, Peter or whoever knows the answer,

 

Do you guys have any good info on increasing track and or tire width?

Is there a point of diminishing returns on going to fatter rubber?

I assume the wider rubber will offer more grip, but at what point does it negatively affect straight line speed, if at all.

Jimmy was afraid to ask, so I thought I would ask for him.

A 911 specific answer is fine with me.

 

Thanks

 

I think it depends on your power level among other things. The joke is that Spec Miata's slow down if you put 225's on them. At some point yes an aero wall of a big fat tire will slow you down. But that also depends on the track. Somewhere like Roebling I'd put as much meat as possible on the car. Car design also makes a difference. The porsche can except a lot of tire before you start to have it effect the aero. In Jimmy's case, much more then a 285 and you start to have barn doors sticking out in the wind. An example would be olivers car. But he's got the HP to push those 11's. I think one reason he was so quick at homestead is Homestead is a "slow" track for the club course. Even in the GT2 we were barely getting over 130 there. Sebring is a big difference as we were well north of 150. I'd be really interested in his data going down the big straights with those big tires. As I might need that data on the mini soon.

This might be a good question for drag racers to put some data in. I plan to run the mini down the redneck straight when we get it done... on 205's on a 6 inch wheel. So long as I can make it grab in 1st gear. Any width is gonna be killing me for the next 3 gears. I got my 347ci V-8 Volvo to 1.7 60ft on 205 tires..... so maybe the mini will do it. HA

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Shawn M.
I think it depends on your power level among other things. The joke is that Spec Miata's slow down if you put 225's on them. At some point yes an aero wall of a big fat tire will slow you down. But that also depends on the track. Somewhere like Roebling I'd put as much meat as possible on the car. Car design also makes a difference. The porsche can except a lot of tire before you start to have it effect the aero. In Jimmy's case, much more then a 285 and you start to have barn doors sticking out in the wind. An example would be olivers car. But he's got the HP to push those 11's. I think one reason he was so quick at homestead is Homestead is a "slow" track for the club course. Even in the GT2 we were barely getting over 130 there. Sebring is a big difference as we were well north of 150. I'd be really interested in his data going down the big straights with those big tires. As I might need that data on the mini soon.

 

 

Yes, power levels has alot to do with "having too much tire". The other factors is tranny gearing and final drive ratios. Another big portion of the equasion is rotational mass. What size and how heavy the wheels are has to come into play too. Ive heard alot of TTC drivers say they went faster on 185's than they did on 205's. Most interesting comments really.

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TurboShortBus
In fact if that happened at the nationals the car would be in tech more than the track, a gps unit would go in the car by NASA...

Hmm, this may be happening at regional events sooner than you think.

 

Mark

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Balroks

Most of the "pro" guys I know (as in breaking records, ub3r sponsors) in the TT/TA circuit try to run the widest tire possible, and then optimize the suspension for 'that day, that track.' My feelings on the matter, is generally run the widest possible in the dry, narrowest possible in the wet. And try to keep the rotational mass as LOW as possible, as well as the rotational diameter.

 

To cut the BS, we need real data to compare against, because driver A's spec miata could have gone 0.4 seconds faster simply because it was cooler outside that day, he had no traffic, he wasn't dehydrated, etc etc etc etc. Bring on the traqmate files!

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TurboShortBus

An email reminder was just sent to the "red" drivers listed on the first page who still need to submit their TT classification forms to me. If your forms are not received by 5:00 pm on Wednesday, April 21, 2010, then you will be classified in TTR.

 

Mark

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Mrsideways
Most of the "pro" guys I know (as in breaking records, ub3r sponsors) in the TT/TA circuit try to run the widest tire possible, and then optimize the suspension for 'that day, that track.' My feelings on the matter, is generally run the widest possible in the dry, narrowest possible in the wet. And try to keep the rotational mass as LOW as possible, as well as the rotational diameter.

 

To cut the BS, we need real data to compare against, because driver A's spec miata could have gone 0.4 seconds faster simply because it was cooler outside that day, he had no traffic, he wasn't dehydrated, etc etc etc etc. Bring on the traqmate files!

 

it's an interesting debate. In in the world of Autox.... wider is better. But at the same time. Strap a set of 315's on a spec miata and see what happens. The thing won't get out of 3rd gear as it won't be able to turn the 50 odd lbs of rotational mass. The top TT/TA cars your refering to make mondo hp and thus this isn't a concern.

 

edit... just talked to an excellent driver who might bring his 944 s2 out to play. My math says it's a TTC car. hopefully he'll put hoosiers on it and be competetive. I think he's signed up in HPDE for PBIR. hopefully he'll make the jump.

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BlkGt3
Most of the "pro" guys I know (as in breaking records, ub3r sponsors) in the TT/TA circuit try to run the widest tire possible, and then optimize the suspension for 'that day, that track.' My feelings on the matter, is generally run the widest possible in the dry, narrowest possible in the wet. And try to keep the rotational mass as LOW as possible, as well as the rotational diameter.

 

To cut the BS, we need real data to compare against, because driver A's spec miata could have gone 0.4 seconds faster simply because it was cooler outside that day, he had no traffic, he wasn't dehydrated, etc etc etc etc. Bring on the traqmate files!

 

it's an interesting debate. In in the world of Autox.... wider is better. But at the same time. Strap a set of 315's on a spec miata and see what happens. The thing won't get out of 3rd gear as it won't be able to turn the 50 odd lbs of rotational mass. The top TT/TA cars your refering to make mondo hp and thus this isn't a concern.

 

edit... just talked to an excellent driver who might bring his 944 s2 out to play. My math says it's a TTC car. hopefully he'll put hoosiers on it and be competetive. I think he's signed up in HPDE for PBIR. hopefully he'll make the jump.

 

He's not bring the Corvair. Did he ever drop off my fender rolling tool.

 

Tire width is a real ???? yes you can get to wide on a lower hp car as the cornering/exit speed won't make up for the drag especially on a high speed track. Also diameter plays a huge roll in speed. The afore mentioned spec miata being slower might just be a factor of a taller tire reducing acceleration . In the 996GT3 which Ian won his championship in we tested back to back between 285 and 315 30 18 rears and the 285's were almost 1 sec faster on a 35 sec course. The taller 315 hurt gearing and also made the car feel numb and it wouldn't rotate as well. When we went to the track 315's immediately went on the rear.

 

Peter

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BlkGt3
I give the mini pretty low percentage of being ready. Maybe Pete will let me borrow the M3 in TTC...

 

Why would you want to drive an underpowered, worn out LSD, oil starving in sweepers, under tired on heavy rims M3??

 

Peter

 

Oh I forgot the floppy suspension.

 

Cause it would be a challenge.

 

Probably better to bring the S2000 in TTB. Also a challenge.

 

Peter

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obzezzed350
Looks like you all might have another TTU entry, if I get my paperwork in and get approved for TT, as I am not doing the One Lap this year due to my Commercial rental business picking up. That is a good thing.

 

Peter

 

Good to hear, it was fun running with you back in March!

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aceking66
I give the mini pretty low percentage of being ready. Maybe Pete will let me borrow the M3 in TTC...

 

Why would you want to drive an underpowered, worn out LSD, oil starving in sweepers, under tired on heavy rims M3??

 

Peter

 

Oh I forgot the floppy suspension.

 

Cause it would be a challenge.

 

 

couple more driver in TTC would be fun and it would work out great for the winner!

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BlkGt3
Looks like you all might have another TTU entry, if I get my paperwork in and get approved for TT, as I am not doing the One Lap this year due to my Commercial rental business picking up. That is a good thing.

 

Peter

 

Good to hear, it was fun running with you back in March!

 

Shhh, don't let anybody know we were testing @ PBIR

 

Peter

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OLI

Hello TT gang, I am sorry I did not reply earlier to all your concerns but I did not even know this forum existed, but a good soul that should remain JoshNameless tipped me that some Sore---- Scratch that some co-participants where complaining about my performance. I have a few comments to make:

*My car is 100% legal for TTA

*If you think the S4 its too Fast For the class and it could win TTA Nationally Go ahead and build one yourself... they are selling on ebay for well under 10K... that way we can share data and testing and both get faster (not many people to compare notes with, I dont have an EVO, or 911 With tons of support)

*Yes I am taking 6 frigging points for increasing the track width more than 4"

*Remember that rules do not asses points for wheel widths if you are running 275 tire on a 8" wide wheel you certainly are not maximizing your chances of winning, now if you run them on an 11" (BTW 11" is the maximum recommended wheel width for 275/40-17 hoosiers) you improve your chances of winning (Am I giving out too much information and now the competition is going to catch up?)

*For the record, when I set that old track record at Homestead I was on some 40-60 Autocross runs old Kumhos V710... awesome tire No Contingency

*For the record, when I set that old track record at Sebring (2:28.89) I was on the same set of Kumho V710 (as mentioned Above) And I had Vario-Toe a funny name we gave to having a loose toe link on the back of the car that would change the rear toe over 1/4" without my control (did you noticed that Ian in his “TTC” mini ran one (1) second slower.. on a mini uhhh 2:29.9)

*My top priority in racing was always autocrossing, every time I got a new set of tires was to autocross, when the tires lost their prime then they were turned to track day tires. The January Homestead event was the first event I can recall I had fresh rubber for the car at a track event... and I guess it played off by scoring me two wins and a track record, and two more tires and a whole bunch of raised eyebrows (you slow guys you wanna win? run fresh rubber)

* I hope that God can give me the talent so my plan of breaking and maintaining every track record on our 3 local tracks comes thorough … So sharpen your setup and your skills if you want to win if not move to another less competitive class… your call

 

With Love

Oli

Edited by Guest

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obzezzed350

Oliver, you are my hero! Tell them how you do work!!!

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Chris C

Wow, look forward to seeing you guys run!

 

I'll be HPDE1 in an Orange LS1 Camaro SS. Come say whats up!

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latapx

I was REALLY looking forward to competing in TT with my car...but after hearing all of this complaining back and forth its almost making me want to reconsider. I've been "out of the loop" for a while...but for those who know me, know that I always come with the car prepped 100% and am VERY meticulous with car prep. BUT, if I get beat...I get beat. Guess what...last time I was at Homestead, I dropped my times by over 2.5 seconds. Was I cheating myself? No. I just learned from data aquisition and strapped my balls on. Just because a driver suddenly improves doesn't mean he is cheating...just that he's done his/her homework. Maybe its time some of you should do yours.

 

Now i really hope I get my clutch in so that I can make it to the next event and show some of the whiners how its done.

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TurboShortBus
I was REALLY looking forward to competing in TT with my car...but after hearing all of this complaining back and forth its almost making me want to reconsider. I've been "out of the loop" for a while...but for those who know me, know that I always come with the car prepped 100% and am VERY meticulous with car prep. BUT, if I get beat...I get beat. Guess what...last time I was at Homestead, I dropped my times by over 2.5 seconds. Was I cheating myself? No. I just learned from data aquisition and strapped my balls on. Just because a driver suddenly improves doesn't mean he is cheating...just that he's done his/her homework. Maybe its time some of you should do yours.

 

Now i really hope I get my clutch in so that I can make it to the next event and show some of the whiners how its done.

Hey Danny...I wouldn't let some internet smack talking get to you that badly. What fun would it be if we didn't have something to argue about, anyway? We have a pretty fun group when we hang out at the track, and it only gets better when the beer starts flowing at 5 pm and Jimmy shows us his teabag maneuver.

 

Mark

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latapx

Trust me Mark...just makes me want to beat the sore folks (at the track, not physically!) even harder. I was really trying to make it to the PBIR event but the previous beat down I gave my 19 year old car claimed 3rd gear synchro, clutch, pressure plate and flywheel friction surface. Tranny is rebuilt, but clutch parts are 2 weeks out. It'll be tight!

 

The frustrating thing to me is people who cannot accept the fact that someone else has one of 3 things:

 

a) a better prepped car

b) better driving skills

c) perhaps a combination of the 2 above with a network of friends that help them sort the car, their aquisition data and help coach them on the track in order to put together the best times possible

 

I have been autocrossing since 2001 and doing the HDPE/road racing thing since about 2005 very sporadically due to the kids. I have scored a bunch of wins, i have been beaten a slew of times...hell...Ian even beat me once with a broken leg driving an automatic Celica!!!! Did I blame him for cheating? NO. I just knew that my bar, my level of performance needed to be raised if I wanted to compete at his level. Whether that meant better car prep (or the proper car for the class) or more seat time for me was up to me to figure out to improve my performance...not attempt to discredit or beat down my competitors.

 

In my opinion, the TT and PT formula is one of the most unique ways to compete in motorsports. You essentially have a blank page to modify your car, to your liking, with knowledge of what each modification "costs" in points. One 4 point mod may make the car significantly faster than another 4 point mod. It is up to each person to decide the best combination of mods per point to make the car as fast as possible. My opinion (again) is that this is where most people go wrong and do not maximize the car for the points/class.

 

This last paragraph is my tidbit of advice to the "slow" folks...and seat time. Trust me, I want you guys to be faster 'cause it'll push me harder as well. I know I'm speaking for Oliver here but, I'm sure he wants the same as well...good competition, but not at the expense of fun.

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OLI

Danny, I think it is more of the circle of friends brainstorming and sharing knowledge about setup and tracklines than anything else

 

Oli

Edited by Guest

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OLI

Mark, tomorrow Ill be submitting my revised TTA clasification form

 

Oli

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