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Fatality at CMP

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MJ_Z06

Terrible news. So sad to hear this...

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McGyver

Before fingers get pointed and assumptions made as to what happened, I'd like to say that my prayers are out to the family of the instructor and the student who will never forget this day in his life. I was in a race at Roebling on 7/23/1967 and a friend of mine was killed in the same race as I. His father, best friend and my wife were all standing in the pits together as he came out of T9 sideways....this before the secondary wall was there. So I know the feeling.

Today's accident at CMP was caused by a water/anti-freezed Porsche that broke a water hose after T8 and spilled fluid unknowingly up past T10. The first two cars behind made it through and the third was a Porsche 930 equipped with a cage. The car went right in a slide off past T9 into the woods where the rear was barely visible from the track. The instructor died 'instantly' as I was told, but unsure of. The instructor was wearing a full harness and a Hans device. According to two doctors at the scene, the EMTs did all the proper diagnostics and treating of the patient that could be done.

Whether this could have been advoided, who knows. Should we allow street cars with anti-freeze on track? Did the car have Rcomps or street tires....I won't instruct a newbie with Rcomps and most organizations don't allow it now. Was the student pulled back some on his learning curve to be safer or did the boost kick in when he hit the wet stuff? We may read more of this accident's statistics but I hope it doesn't deter doing DEs in the future. We just need to 'train' drivers better and stay alert doing so. This was a tragedy and it will happen again somwhere, some place but it's still safer than driving on the highways.

 

McGyver

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dbright007

Such sad news. My prayers go out to all affected by this.

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Fred Crawford

Well said.................. McGyver..

 

Fc

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Firebird Man

Very sad indeed, I've wondered how you instructors can get into cars with unknown drivers in high hp-high speed cars. I couldn't do it.

Absolutely heart breaking is what it is.

 

Maybe it's time for instructors to tell students to back it down rather than push it harder. I resisted everytime I was told to push it harder and faster while in DE, I felt I wasn't ready. I'd prefer to sneak up on the cars limits rather than find the limit first and then back it down. But I'm sure some students will push it to the limit right off as a track does give you a sense of safety at high speed with an instructor with you, but it's a false sense.

 

Sounds like the anitfreeze spill had a lot to do with it, but I wonder if having instructors in DE in cars going that fast is a good idea? Or even having cars that fast in DE? High speed cars are very easy to come by these days.

 

And ever since my first DE class I wondered why DE cars could run antifreeze but racers couldn't. A street car is just as likely to boil over or leak as a racer.

 

I'll be thinking of all you instructors this coming weekend, be safe out there.

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beerkat

My prayer go out to all invloved in this mishap.

 

The first DE I ever did we were limited to 95 mph on the straight aways and I do not think that passing was allowed at all.

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Lemming

Very sad. My thoughts go out to the family.

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mcmmotorsports

Very sad indeed. Thoughts and prayers to family and friends affected by this tragedy.

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Jim P.

It is truly sad news indeed, fatalities are a sad fact of what we do, but as McGyver pointed out, the streets are generally more hazardous than the race track.

 

I have instructed for many years now and since my 1st car was an AIX Mustang, I am generally assigned some of the faster cars to instruct in, assuming that I can handle the speeds. I have instructed in many different cars, I truly enjoy it and love to see the progression of my students from HPDE 1 to TT or Racing. We have instructor clinics many times a year and the primary focus is not how to drive but how to determine the driver's state of mind and/or how to take control of a bad situation with only a communicator.

 

We have many folks who want to forgo the instructor clinics since they "already know how to drive", but the truth is it's not about driving skill, it's about communicating exactly what you want the driver to do and to do it so that everyone in the vehicle can have fun, go fast and go home unscathed. It can truly be trying at times, but in the end it is usually very rewarding, especially when the light bulb clicks on in the students mind and it all comes together.

 

I had a mishap with a student at Summit Point a few years ago, we went into the outside tire wall off of T3 near the Jefferson circuit. We were fine, the car (twin turbo 350z) needed serious repair and I was asked by more than a few folks if I was going to give up instructing. My response was "H*ll NO!, I only wish I had communicated with that student better!"

 

I know that many instructors will agree with me that the danger is always there, the key is to communicate to the student how to sneak up on it without anyone getting hurt in the process.

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trhoads

It is very sad news, very sobering, and a reminder that what we do is dangerous. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, such a sad loss.

 

As a new instructor, it makes you think. But Jim put it well, IC teaches you communication, and the instructor should be in control at all times. I enjoyed my first time out, and will do it again...thankfully, I drive a slow car, so will probably get assigned to slower cars...which is fine, it is what I know, and would be better at helping someone else in.

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Renntag

This is very sobering news. Our prayers go out to the families effected by this.

 

I have to agree with what was stated in earlier posts. We know this is dangerous, communication is paramount, we will continue to do what we love and learn more about increased safety along the way. I often jump at the challenge of instructing in the car few are willing to. I know that when my number is up, its up. I only pray that my family is well cared for.

 

The instructor may have done everything possible to achieve a safe outcome. This is a very rare occurrence that we can second guess for years to come. I would rather be on track than the public highways any day. The highway safety institute has reported 30-40,000 people die on public highways annually.

 

I hope the family this instructor has tragically left behind is not alone, and is well cared for.

 

-Godspeed.

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sperkins
I only pray that my family is well cared for.

 

I pray for my families well being before every session in the pre-grid should something happen to me.

You just never know.

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HBennett

Very sad and unfortunate.

 

I don't know how you instructors do it. I've tried but just can't get comfortable at speed in the passenger seat. Maybe my first stint as an instructor shouldn't have been with Mustang clubs.

 

Howard

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drivinhardz06
I don't know how you instructors do it. I've tried but just can't get comfortable at speed in the passenger seat.

 

20-30 sec/lap slower than what we run, but it feels 2x as fast in the right seat.

 

In looking for the story last night on local SC news, I found this. Dude could have left the track ok and gotten killed on the way home just as easy.

 

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12098512

 

Very sad to hear, heard about it on another forum, heart goes out to the family. Hearing this stuff does not help my wife like my hobby any better.

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Firebird Man

This was posted just recently in the other forum:

 

A 911 996 had an upper radiator close clamp failure, it was a street car with the stock style spring clamps, and one partially slipped. The driver dumped coolant somewhere around Turn 8, realized he was losing fluids, and immediately drove off line, just like he was supposed to. Unfortunately, there were was a 930 following pretty close behind in the group, it was very cold that morning, and what happened was just unavoidable. Matter of fact, I've driven with the 930 driver before, he's a talented driver, and on this outing he was on his final check ride to move up to the next group. The corner workers did their jobs, the EMTs did their jobs, the 930 was a race prepped car with every piece of safety gear you can imagine. The driver in fact was completely uninjured. As near as we can assume, a tree branch must've penetrated the cockpit.

 

I can honestly say I've always thought CMP was one of the safest tracks, I don't have the Kink figured out but I do respect it. The only part that spooks me somewhat is the T8-9 combo. Lot of speed, very flat and not enough run off, and I'd never noticed before but I guess you can reach the trees with an off. I've pushed all the way to the left sides off exiting T8 before. Little fluid or sand is all it'd take.

I do hope that's addressed before we make it back down.

 

CMPAerialrevisedcopy.jpg

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kbrew8991

that plus the blind spot Maduske got lost in.... yikes.

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sperkins

I've always wondered why there is no armco on that stretch. Hopefully there will be after this tragedy.

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drivinhardz06
I've always wondered why there is no armco on that stretch. Hopefully there will be after this tragedy.

 

same thing headed down to 8. there's a nice "pocket" to the left of where the armco starts before 8, that by the time we are that far down, are hauling pretty good. anything to fling you off (mechanical, or whatever) at that point, and you'd be stopped by trees, or a tree.

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Vroomgrrl

Is anyone aware of any charities whose specific purpose is to support families of drivers/racers who die from on-track incidents?

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DarkSideDE

I knew the instructor very well. I wish so much for his family - they were all good people.

 

He was an EXCELLENT instructor - very "smooth" driver and loved the sport of DE. I don't think many of you know how much he will be missed. He was one of the good guys - always had a smile for everyone and one of the best sunny dispositions you've ever seen in your life.

 

I'll miss him. God speed TN

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Eric the Red
I've always wondered why there is no armco on that stretch. Hopefully there will be after this tragedy.

 

same thing headed down to 8. there's a nice "pocket" to the left of where the armco starts before 8, that by the time we are that far down, are hauling pretty good. anything to fling you off (mechanical, or whatever) at that point, and you'd be stopped by trees, or a tree.

 

As much as everyone complains about the concrete ring around RA, there's a damn good reason it's there. Going into trees at high speed is infinitely more dangerous than hitting a wall. Remember all the horrendous crashes at LeMans prior to the armco...?

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Jim P.
As you may have heard by now, there was an incident during our Driver’s Ed event yesterday at Carolina Motorsports Park that resulted in a fatality. The vehicle in which Tom Norby was instructing went off track and impacted a tree. Fire/Rescue and EMT responded immediately, however Tom died of his injuries at the scene.

 

Tom was a Carolinas Region PCA member and served as a Driver's Ed Instructor, having completed the PCA National Driver's Education Instructor training. He was 58.

 

This is a difficult time for everyone, especially Tom’s family. Please keep Tom's wife Paula and his family in your thoughts and prayers.

 

A visitation with the family will be held in Charlotte, NC at Harry and Bryant Co., 500 Providence Rd., on Wednesday, March 10, from 6 to 8 p.m. The memorial service will be held at Covenant Presbyterian Church, where he was a member, 1000 E. Morehead St., Charlotte, NC, on Thursday, March 11, at 4:30 p.m.

 

You can find more information here:

 

http://www.legacy.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Thomas-Norby&lc=2734&mid=4164573

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smokinjoe

I'm very sorry to hear this happened. A similar incident happened to Jeff England at RA in 08. He was instructing a student in a C5 when a Porsche GT (2 or 3) lost coolant on the backstretch and carried it down T12. Jeff and his student hit a patch and connected with the inside wall just past the start/finish. Totalled the C5. I think another car hit the wall past T1 - although I cant recall exactly. Jeff could fill in the details.

 

Please, please prep your cars

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Jason T.
I'm very sorry to hear this happened. A similar incident happened to Jeff England at RA in 08. He was instructing a student in a C5 when a Porsche GT (2 or 3) lost coolant on the backstretch and carried it down T12. Jeff and his student hit a patch and connected with the inside wall just past the start/finish. Totalled the C5. I think another car hit the wall past T1 - although I cant recall exactly. Jeff could fill in the details.

 

Please, please prep your cars

 

makes me wonder if DEs will start requiring that cars run straight water, no ethylene glycol. i mean it's not as if we're out there driving around in the snow.

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