HPDE traffic

[Marcel D.]

I'm so happy that you just basically said what I just said and by the way the age comentary if you defend what he said about firing and parking everybody really? . I have been driving for about 20 years profesionally not just around the track and one thing I learned is that you don't need a license to stick your foot in your mouth and honestly you being an instructor I tought you would support a little biit more the system that you help.

I really don't care if he has a license and I don't I'm working to it without wining. By the way I'm 43 and I have earned my opinion. So really you support his opinion ? If you do I'm sorry

 

Cheers

[Marcel D.]

That said, our job, as instructors, is NOT to "weed out the bad drivers," in any way, shape, or form.

 

So please tell me what would you do if a driver just really does bad and he/she is a safety hazard for everybody around , and don't tell me there is not people like that. And what if they don't change. Are u still going to let them drive. I have seen people being asked to not participate in the next sesion because they are really bad. What do you call that?

Maybe "weed out" was not the politically correct word, but then again , I have no affilitation to any political whatever. I just call the shots the way I see them and right now I see a lot of wining.

 

Now about the COMP LICENSE that I don't have, well I didn't know that a little piece of plastic makes you more intelligent. Maybe when I get mine in November I'll send you a pm and let you know if my intelligence got better. I don't get impressed by words, actions is what I look for. License or not. I don't expect you or anybody to agree with me that is why is called opinion and that is mine.

 

I think I'm done now cause without the COMP LICENSE I'm running out of words, heck I think I might have misspelled a bunc of words already and getting tired. So I will let you COMP LICENSE holders so you can talk about whatever you talk about cause I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about.

 

Sincerely

 

hearthbroken

[soundguydave]

Dude.... Ritalin....

[sscguy]

Normally I keep quiet on this board, but Marcel, you've struck a nerve.

 

I never said separating the men from the boys, If you don't know how to drive it doesn't have absolutely anything to do with your age. The one behind it is ultimately in charge of the car, not the instructor. So if your state of mind is not set correctly to drive on the track then you don't have any business on it.

 

The "men from the boys" is a common phrase, meant to imply in this case "the brave from the sissy", not meant literally as a separation of age. Have you never heard this before?

 

Before I continue, are you an instructor? If so, have you ever had formal training as an instructor? I ask this because so many of your opinions about instructing are just flat-out wrong, and as an instructor myself I'd appreciate if you would stop talking out of your ass about a subject you clearly have no knowledge on. It is rude and disrespectful.

 

This is all about maturity and safety and instructors can not give it to you, I don't care how old you are. The race track is not a place to learn how to drive, it is a place to polish your skills

 

Wrong point #1 and 2. Once again as an instructor, I've had students mature WITHIN A SINGLE WEEKEND. I have seen this with my own eyes, and it has been directly because of my influence and instruction. Without me there in the seat, it would not have happened. Additionally, HPDE specifically IS for learning how to drive. Learning how to drive fast and ON A RACETRACK. Once in HPDE3/4, you work on "polishing your skills" but prior to that, you aren't expected to even have any skills!

 

and by meaning that you have to weed bad drivers that is what I mean, sorry but there is bad drivers and just because you pay to go in the track doesn't mean that you know how to drive in it. That is why there is 4 levels in HPDE, to sort the guys that want to go ahead with TT or race. If you just want to have fun stay in 1 or 2.

Wrong point #3. No, there are 4 levels in HPDE because learning is a process, and everyone has to start somewhere. Just because YOU have a desire to TT/race does not mean everyone else does. There are plenty of guys in HPDE3 that just want to drive fast, and are skilled enough to do so in that environment. Most of them got there by learning how to drive in HPDE1 and 2.

 

It is so easy to put the blame on somebody else like in school. If the kid doesn't learn is the teachers fault right? WRONG, is the kid that doesn't want to learn or can not learn. Same in the track, if the driver doesn't want to follow advise then what do you think is going to happen.

Wrong point #4. It is the instructor's JOB to educate and control the student. A good instructor can improve almost any student and diffuse almost any dangerous behavior. That is why we are there. Do you think we're just there for ballast? Sure, there are a few exceptions, but in almost 4 years of instructing and I don't know how many students, I've never had one that I couldn't keep in control. Basing your opinion on the exception is just ridiculous.

 

Take responsability for yourself and don't blame everybody else.

I don't even know what to say to this. Other than people who are speculating on the event, where is anyone blaming someone other than themselves and making excuses? The poster of the video actually owns up to his son's mistakes, and takes responsibility for it. Additionally, he says his son is doing the same thing. Applying that generalized life outlook (which I share in other aspects) has no place in this discussion. Driving on a racetrack is a cooperative activity. Everyone has to work together to safely accomplish a session. This is the case even in racing with open passing. Without cooperation, you would have chaos and disaster.

 

If you could take a step back for a minute, and breath. You're entitled to your opinion, everyone has one, blah blah blah. You are preaching maturity, safety, and experience, but are displaying none of it.

Marcel, before you start with this kind of deal, you may want to think a bit. The age comment seems rather pot/kettle to me given many of the comments that you have made in this thread...

What this means, in case you haven't heard the phrase "pot calling the kettle black", is that you are addressing someone's comment with ridicule, basing it on their age, and yet are acting immature and ignorant yourself. You are being a hypocrite. You continue being a hypocrite by disrespecting other people's opinions (soundguydave's and my own), yet claiming that yours is untouchable, just because its YOUR opinion. I feel that the only correct statement you made in this entire thread is this one:

cause I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[jimbow]

I'm not going to quote your whole post - I agree with everything you stated!

 

Normally I keep quiet on this board, but Marcel, you've struck a nerve.

 

cause I don't have any idea of what I'm talking about.

 

But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

I had two students last weekend - one was very nervous and worried the first session. By the last session of the first day they had a big smile on thier face that probably won't wear off for a month. This is part of our job as instructors, we have three things in mind:

 

Safety

Fun

Teach

Safety

 

My second student on day one wanted to use all his horsepower and none of his brakes, by the end of the second day he was starting to get the message - use more brakes and a little less horsepower.

 

I've been in HPDE for a long time and moved to instructing & TT last year. I remember trains, I remember long discussions on pulling through the pits to get space. I've been in instructor meetings where the instructor of a student would say "My student does not want to go any faster - we will point as many folks as possible by in the passing zones"

 

COMMUNICATION is the key! You have to do it at the event and after the event - EVERY TIME!

[Marcel D.]

It is funny that when this topic started there was a hole bunch of people slamming on NASA and very few defending it. One being my self , defending the job of the instructors and acknoledging that it is very hard indeed.

 

After I called somebody childish in his comentaries about rounding up everybody and firing people then I get some people jumping and twitching and calling me all kinds of things. Good job. And it just so happened that you guys are the same instructors that I'm trying to defend in the first place.

 

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass when I try to help you out. Next time you are in a train and somebody comment on you telll them they don't know what they are talking about because you are so much better than them.

[sscguy]

Where were you trying to help instructors out? For that matter, where was it asked that any of the instructors shown needed defense? If anything, they deserve criticism for not guiding their students properly. Yes, the job is hard. Does that excuse them from doing it correctly, as shown in the video? NOPE.

 

I don't understand your last comment about being in a train etc. If you're somehow implying that I would be slow, and thus leading a train, and thus having people complain about me, you would be making a completely uninformed and incorrect statement. If you're saying somethign else, I don't know what it is.

 

Lastly, at no point did I claim to be better than you, only that your statements were incorrect. They are two different things.

[rbrumm]

come on.... everyone get together and hug

[kieranlavin]

I agree with everything sscguy has said above me. And, for the record, read my post #5 where I DO defend NASA as in my subsequent posts as well (as do many others if you read them).

 

Quite honestly Marcel (and no offense) you are the typical stereotypical HPDE3 driver... thinks he knows EVERYTHING and still has LOTS to learn. I would DOUBT that passing without a point-by is acceptable in SoCal. I'll check on that for all of our clarification. And again, no offense but I think you might want to take a step back to HPDE2 before you cause harm to yourself or someone else

[pardo]

I went to NASA NorCal event yesterday at Infineon. In the driver meeting, instructor clarified that point-by is OPTIONAL for any groups.

[boxtwo]

I went to NASA NorCal event yesterday at Infineon. In the driver meeting, instructor clarified that point-by is OPTIONAL for any groups.

 

Clarify "optional." This can be interpreted as "you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not," or "the lead driver has the OPTION of giving a point-by, otherwise, no passing.

 

I understand the NASA CCR to read "passing ONLY by point-by in HPDE 1-3."

[pardo]

Thanks - This is what I meant:

 

"you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not"

 

This is true for HPDE 1, 2, 3, 4, at least at Infineon, yesterday 6/27/2010

[boxtwo]

NASA CCR, p30 6.3

6.3 Passing Rules

1. No passing in “No Passing Areas” as defined by the Passing Rules (available at the

meeting or Registration). [Ref:(25.4.1)]

2. No passing under any yellow flag situation until the driver is past the incident, or

past the next manned flag station that does not display a yellow flag [Ref:(7.2 - 7.4)].

3. If an Instructor waves a car by, that does not count as a pass. (Instructors will have

an “X” on their cars.) Drivers may not pass under yellow, even if they perceive a

“wave by” from their instructor.

4. If a car is having mechanical trouble and is pulling off the track, a pass is allowed

regardless of the passing rules.

5. A driver may not pass another driver in a no passing zone or situation, even if

the other driver waves him/her by.

6. The driver attempting to make a pass is solely responsible for safe outcome of that

pass. Drivers making a pass should be certain that the driver ahead of them can

see them before attempting to pass. All drivers are reminded that this is not a

competition and risky passes are prohibited.

 

It does not dictate point-bys specifically, so that might be a regional thing. Still, I refer to #5 above.

[ReaperX]

Thanks - This is what I meant:

 

"you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not"

 

This is true for HPDE 1, 2, 3, 4, at least at Infineon, yesterday 6/27/2010

 

I am glad I am in the SE and not that region. How many near misses do you guys get in a weekend in the lower groups?

[Lucid Moments]

Thanks - This is what I meant:

 

"you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not"

 

This is true for HPDE 1, 2, 3, 4, at least at Infineon, yesterday 6/27/2010

 

I am glad I am in the SE and not that region. How many near misses do you guys get in a weekend in the lower groups?

 

yea, wow. Me too. Open passing in HPDE1 with no point by's is......... I can't think of a word for what it is.

[kbrew8991]

Thanks - This is what I meant:

 

"you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not"

 

This is true for HPDE 1, 2, 3, 4, at least at Infineon, yesterday 6/27/2010

 

I am glad I am in the SE and not that region. How many near misses do you guys get in a weekend in the lower groups?

 

yea, wow. Me too. Open passing in HPDE1 with no point by's is......... I can't think of a word for what it is.

I believe you're looking for one of the following

dumb

misguided

optimistic

fool hardy

retarded

stupid

etc

[Lucid Moments]

I am glad I am in the SE and not that region. How many near misses do you guys get in a weekend in the lower groups?

 

yea, wow. Me too. Open passing in HPDE1 with no point by's is......... I can't think of a word for what it is.

I believe you're looking for one of the following

dumb

misguided

optimistic

fool hardy

retarded

stupid

etc

 

Let me rephrase. I can't think of a word that adequately describes it without being insulting.

[sscguy]

"you can pass anytime whether the driver gives a point-by or not"

 

This is true for HPDE 1, 2, 3, 4, at least at Infineon, yesterday 6/27/2010

 

Wow...

[soundguydave]

Yeah, that's exactly where I want to be... Strapped into a Viper with a "first time" driver, as he sees a Miata zooming in on him entering into a hairpin turn.... NOT!!

[cmchopeful]

Do you get your TT license at the first download?

[pardo]

sorry I wrote it wrong yesterday. I was in a rush at work, and this morning i read my post, i realized i made a mistake...

 

For Group 1 and 2, pass on specified straights only (not anywhere). At Infineon, there were 3 passing zones only.

 

for passing, point-by is optional.

[kbrew8991]

for passing, point-by is optional.

 

very dumb idea in lower HPDE groups

[boxtwo]

sorry I wrote it wrong yesterday. I was in a rush at work, and this morning i read my post, i realized i made a mistake...

 

For Group 1 and 2, pass on specified straights only (not anywhere). At Infineon, there were 3 passing zones only.

 

for passing, point-by is optional.

 

It is better that there are designated passing zones, but theoptional point-by in lower HPDE's in nuts.

[kieranlavin]

I guess the way they're looking at it is that with limited passing zones, you limit the areas on the track where you have accidents. Sounds smart.

 

Wow, I'm REALLY glad I'm in the northeast where things are relatively sane and MUCH more safe than open passing. I'm scared being on the track at the same time as some of the instructors here without a pointby!

[jrlz0306]

sorry I wrote it wrong yesterday. I was in a rush at work, and this morning i read my post, i realized i made a mistake...

 

For Group 1 and 2, pass on specified straights only (not anywhere). At Infineon, there were 3 passing zones only.

 

for passing, point-by is optional.

 

I went through NASA Norcal Hpde 1 thru 4. In 1 and 2, there was no passing except on specified zones on the straights, and no point bys in hpde1,2

 

John

03 Z06 TT