Jeff F Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 Chris, not sure which forum is right place for this, but I know you check here. I read your "top 10" on the OH/IN website, and it appears that one of them doesn't jive with the CCR. Hoping you could comment on it: 4. Seat belt crotch strap mounted behind your rear end. Too many cars have the anti-submarine belt mounted forward of their crotch. This must be changed. A good reference is the diagram that comes with the belts or the simpson website http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/safety/. The website you reference says "slightly behind chest line" for 5pt, "20 degrees behind chest line" for 6pt. CCR doesn't have any requirement. Nothing about "behind your rear end", and I doubt you'll find too many cars with the mount that far back. Quote
Grizlbits Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 I read your "top 10" on the OH/IN website, and it appears that one of them doesn't jive with the CCR. Hoping you could comment on it: Actually Lawrence added the Simpson link. However, this information came from the safty presentation at the awards banquet. The speaker was addiment about the mounting of the belts. He said that if the crotch straps are mounted straight down, or forward of the pelvis, this caused the torso to wedge down in an impact and make the upper body out of position for the HANS and belts to handle impact correctly. Generally, he said that mounting the crotch straps behind your butt, or back were the lap belts are mounted was the best place to mount them. I realize this may not be in the CCR, but it will be brought to the directors for review. Whether it is required or not, it is a very good idea according to the speaker to do this. Nothing about "behind your rear end", and I doubt you'll find too many cars with the mount that far back. FYI, my belts attach to the same area as my lap belts, behind my butt, and have for years. Can anyone else who was at the Banquet chime in and back up my tech? Quote
swhiteh3 Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 In cars I've worked on, it's sometimes tough to mount them to the belt mounting points, but I've often mounted them to the back seat mounting bolts. That works quite well. Of course, where they are mounted doesn't matter as much as where the slot is in the seat. If the slot in your seat is in front of your crotch, then the belts are going to go forward - no matter where they are mounted. If the slot is behind you, then the belts will go back, even if you mount the crotch straps in front of you. And what of the cheaper seats that don't even have a crotch belt opening - are those not allowed?? There needs to be some serious thought about this rule before it's implemented. Even changes based on "safety" need to be considered strongly before being implemented, or we'd have run roll cages made of 2" solid tube because it's "stronger". I'm NOT saying this is the not the right move to make. I AM saying that posting about how belts may and may not be mounted is just confusing to the population of NASA racers if the rule is not well thought out, well worded, and published FIRST. Quote
Keith Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 I guess that is what I was wondering about. My seat has a slot where the anti-submarine belt is threaded through. I thought that the idea behind this design was to address the same safety issue as the suggested of where the mounting point is... Is my car not gonna pass tech? Quote
swhiteh3 Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 Suddenly a lot of people are wondering that. We'll have to wait until the "official rule" comes out - and when it does everyone here in the Midwest at least will be wandering out into their deep-freeze garages to find out if they comply..... Quote
onralz Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 Though I certainly am not in a position to state what the rule is, what Chris is describing is in fact what Tom Gideon from GM Racing suggested needs to be done to be effective. Quote
mansier Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 Basically what Chris and I were trying to get across is that a few cars each event come to tech with the crotch belt mounted well forward of the hole in the seat or even forward of the seat itself. This is not the manufacturers recommendation, and drivers will be asked to remount the crotch strap(s) per the manufacturers guidelines. The chest line is far behind what I have described here. Use the simpson (or other company guide) and you will be fine. Mounting the crotch belt after the seat is in place is a sure way to be delayed in annual tech, or random safety checks. If the banquet taught us all anything, it was to get the right safety equipment. Seat, belts, helmet, HANS, net(s), fire system, etc. If you are wondering if the car will pass tech, or if you could make modifications to make the car more safe, please call your region office or the national office and provide them with information and pictures about your safety equipment. They will be glad to help you! LM Quote
Jeff F Posted January 29, 2005 Author Posted January 29, 2005 My concern here is that you seem to be enforcing a rule that doesn't exist, and doesn't even jive with accepted standards such as the manufacturers installation instructions. While I appreciate your concern for our safety, it doesn't seem appropriate to fail a car because it doesn't meet this requirement. If someone shows up with the belt mounted 6" forward of the hole in the seat I would certainly ask them to fix it by the next race, but technically the car is legal. Let's turn this discussion into something positive-- perhaps Lawrence or somone else from the reigon, with concurrence from Tom Gideon, could draft up some proposed revisions for the '06 CCR and send them to the national office, so that all of NASA can benefit from this info? The last thing we need is different rules for different regions. Scott, I was just out in my garage. It's 55 degrees... Quote
swhiteh3 Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 I've got you beat Jeff. Mine is up to 61* tonight. Of course, I've had the heater on since 5pm to get it that high... Clarify the rules, and enforce what's written in them. (And yes, that means everything that's written, and ONLY what's written.) Or, put another way, place your hand on the CCRs and repeat after me: "I, agree to the rules, the whole rules, and nothing but the rules." You may be seated.... Quote
Jeff F Posted January 29, 2005 Author Posted January 29, 2005 I've got you beat Jeff. Mine is up to 61* tonight. What is this, the "Michigan Winter" version of bench racing? I've got 150,000 BTU's of gas fired, fan circulated fury. Bring it on, Whitehead. Quote
onralz Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 I've got 100k BTU and all the hot air from my mouth, and my wonderful, beautiful, loving wife. Quote
mwilson7 Posted January 29, 2005 Posted January 29, 2005 I've got you all beat! I just get Tone in the garage and tell him how fast other people are and he spends the next few hours spewing out hot air with his stories of glory. I think we're over 75 degrees right now and still going up...... Quote
Black Horse Posted January 30, 2005 Posted January 30, 2005 I've got you all beat! I just get Tone in the garage and tell him how fast other people are and he spends the next few hours spewing out hot air with his stories of glory. I think we're over 75 degrees right now and still going up...... Just feed him Whitecastles and light the ensuing methane! Quote
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