HPDE Helmet & Harness Question

[BrandonT]

I have two questions on the HPDE rules:

 

- I currently have a G-Force helmet, which is a full face but does not have a sheild. I bought this because it is easier to put on my eye glasses with the larger eyeport. The glasses I wear are a sport / active design with plastic lenses. Obviously I would prefer to not buy another helmet. Will this suffice for an HPDE?

 

 

- Also, I have installed a Sparco Clubman harness which is a 3/4 point design. The lap belt attaches to the stock mounts and the shoulders join into a 'Y' then attach with grade 8 bolts to the rear seatbelt mount. I noticed that if a harness is used, the rules seem to state that they must be a 5 point or 6 point and cannot use a Y shoulder design. Is this harness acceptable to use, if I also use my cars' stock seatbelts at the same time?

[99HOSS]

... if your car is not a race car, has no rollbar, your stock belts are fine. So's your helmet.

 

What class you signed up for and where?

[BrandonT]

I am going to sign up for the Road America HPDE, starting in group 1, April 8-10. I want to be sure these items are legal first, though. I read that stock belts were allowed, but I wasn't sure if I would be allowed to use my harness instead *OR* in addition to my stock belt.

[zuperdave]

I think "Y"-style belts are not allowed for racing... If that's the case, I wouldn't use them for HPDE, either... Your helmet is supposed to be Snell SA200 rated, I don't know how closely your region inspects...

[slammed_93_hatch]

I think "Y"-style belts are not allowed for racing... If that's the case, I wouldn't use them for HPDE, either...

 

 

im also pretty sure that the rule books states, if you modifie your car from the stock forum it must meet the CCR. or at least it implies that.

 

 

So no that harness would be illegal, and really not safe. wearing a harness without a roll bar isn't a good idea.

[Pintoracer]

I have two questions on the HPDE rules:

 

- I currently have a G-Force helmet, which is a full face but does not have a sheild. I bought this because it is easier to put on my eye glasses with the larger eyeport. The glasses I wear are a sport / active design with plastic lenses. Obviously I would prefer to not buy another helmet. Will this suffice for an HPDE?

 

 

- Also, I have installed a Sparco Clubman harness which is a 3/4 point design. The lap belt attaches to the stock mounts and the shoulders join into a 'Y' then attach with grade 8 bolts to the rear seatbelt mount. I noticed that if a harness is used, the rules seem to state that they must be a 5 point or 6 point and cannot use a Y shoulder design. Is this harness acceptable to use, if I also use my cars' stock seatbelts at the same time?

I'm an HPDE tech inspector in Norcal region so my answer is based on what we do here. You should check with your local region's event director or tech inspector to confirm.

We do not allow Y-type belts, period. If you have a stock seat we prefer you use the stock seat belt/shoulder harness. Adding a competition lap belt to the stock set-up is permitted but not recommended. To use a full competition harness it must be mounted in compliance with the CCR requirements for race cars. Depending on your car this may require you to also install a roll bar and/or a racing seat.

Inspectors are given latitude re helmets. We can allow any DOT approved automotive or motorcycle helmet that is in GOOD CONDITION except no "inverted pot" or half helmets like the ones popular with Harley riders. Your G-Force should be fine. Eye protection is required even in cars with windshields. Sunglasses or eyeglasses will meet this requirement if the lenses aren't too small.

[BrandonT]

Thanks for the response. My region director gave me the ok on the helmet and harness, so I should be good to go.

[1Sicgt]

In regards to the helmet. Read the CCR's

 

11.3 Required Safety Equipment - Driver

1. Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1990 (SA1990; M1990) or newer (or

equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles.

 

Same section about the belts

 

2. The driver and any passenger must utilize modern style* stock seatbelts in very

good condition, or a NASA approved restraint system, while operating a vehicle

on the track. Restraint system requirements are listed in Section #11.4.8. *Lap

belts used without any shoulder restraints are not permitted.

 

Skip to section 11.4.8

 

11.4.8 Seatbelts and Harnesses

The seatbelts should be in good condition. No damage may be present on the seatbelts

and they must be the factory configuration. Any harness or any restraint system, other

than factory stock, shall conform to CCR section #15.5, in all respects except for the

expiration regulations. Harnesses that are expired for racing may be used providing that

they are in at least very good condition. The use of a lap belt without any shoulder

restraint is not permitted. Passenger seatbelts must meet the same requirements as the

driver seatbelts if being used by a passenger.

 

Harnesses section 15.5

 

8. Only separate shoulder straps are permitted. “H” type belts are allowed. “Y”

type belts are not allowed. Each should strap must have an independent

mounting point.

 

That should clarify everything.

[BrandonT]

I actually quoted those very sections to my region director, who said that they were out of context. He approved the Sparco for use in HPDE so I'll be using them - probably with the stock belts as well - just in case.

 

Section 15 really should only apply to competition vehicles. It is in the competition section. If you actually take everything literally then any car with a sunroof also requires arm restraints... Going a bit far for a track day, IMO. SCCA doesn't even require this, and they're usually considered more strict.

[MWieber]

NASA typically does not allow "Y" style harnesses because at the higher speeds of road racing, having one anchor point is pretty marginal. You DEFINITELY DO NOT want to use y-style harnesses at the same time as the factory set up. Factory belts are designed to allow one shoulder to move forward during an impact. This keeps you from sliding under the lap belt (submarining) as your waist can bend over the lap belt. Typical 3 or 4 point sytems hold you in the seat much better while driving, but do not have any submarining protection.

Glasses (or sunglasses) are OK eye protection for HPDE.

Mark Wieber

[Nick 95 6sp]

Sort of a related aside:

I've always used an open face helmet ...not for glasses, I just never got used to being so closed in. Lately, I've seriously considered going with a new full face helmet for added safety and so I don't overly contribute to my dentist's or plastic surgeon's retirement fund. But I just read a reliable opinion that said for other than full race cars, like my street car that I track that has air bags, some consider an open face helmet safer if the airbags blow.

[HBennett]

This warning about full-face helmets and airbags has been circulating for the past couple of months. I think it originated with the SCCA. I believe this supposed warning is premature and alarmist. If I remember right, the actual study was done several years ago and targeted F1 (fixed seating position in relationship to steering wheel) and very high speeds.

 

A full-face helmet provides more protection than an open face helmet. If everyone will think about it, there are so many variables involved with air bags as far as what type of helmet to wear. Steering column and wheel position, seating position, seats, body torso and restraint system all have an impact (no pun intended) on how the air bag is contacted.

 

Most every manufacturer and retailer still recommends a full-face helmet for protection.

 

Howard Bennett

Racer Wholesale

[Pintoracer]

You're right Howard.

 

In January we held the Norcal Tech Seminar to certify tech inspectors for the current season. We had 2 guest speakers from the Snell Foundation who told us that the myth that is growing about this subject got started when the Mercedes F1 team did some testing with airbags. They found that the chin bar of closed face helmets could be broken by deployment of airbags in their cars. This was a situation unique to 1 particular F1 car fielded by 1 particular Marque. Now we have people running around saying that closed face helmets are unsafe in cars with airbags. It's the old story of a little knowledge not being a good thing.

[Nick 95 6sp]

Thanks for both of your opinions. It sounded at least questionable to me too but it caught my eye since my only helmet is a Snell 95 rated open face joby. I'll pick one of the new styles I've seen and like for track use and wear my old one during discussions with my wife.

[Frank Corkran]

... I'll pick one of the new styles I've seen and like for track use and wear my old one during discussions with my wife.

 

Isn't that when you'd really want a full face helmet?

[FocusTed]

You're right Howard.

 

Now we have people running around saying that closed face helmets are unsafe in cars with airbags. It's the old story of a little knowledge not being a good thing.

 

Well, SCCA did issue a advisory from that FIA Study, and people reacted on this advisory. http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/AirbagAdvisory.pdf

After looking more into this advisory issued by SCCA.... I believe that SCCA might be jumping the gun on this one. because of the seating postion is so different in a street car then an F1 Car.

 

I personal have an open face helmet... but I will be buying a full face helmet soon, and I still have airbags

[MWieber]

I believe Ken is correct about the formula car/ air bag issue, and I think SCCA has 'jumped the gun' early and badly here. The NASA instructor school points out that open face helmets can be much better for communicating with your students, and ralley racers often wear them for better communication between the driver and the navigator. Full face helmets have better protection from road debree that gets tossed in the car, they have better fire protection, and in the case of rattling around in the car during a roll over, or side impact they are obviously better.

I worked on the NASA safety crew in Norcal for 7 years and was Chief of Safety for 4 years. I AM NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE DONE!! but I have seen multiple crashes involving air bags and full face helmets, in street cars, and I have never seen anyone break their jaw.

Mark Wieber

[Frank Corkran]

I have seen a deer come through a windshield and strike an instructor wearing an open face helmet in the face, causing serious and long term injury. I've also seen an instructor's helmet with cracks on both sides where the chin gaurd begins. This was after a rollover that required cutting off the roof. No injuries other than a couple stitches in the instructor's leg from the lower dash edge - he was wearing shorts. As for communication, nothing beats a quality communicator. A full face helmet cuts down on pickup of external noise as well. If you're going to buy a dedicated helmet for track use, get a full face SA-rated helmet. Any perceived comfort issues between full and open face helmets disappears by the first turn.