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uberklasse

Help! Help!....my woes continue

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uberklasse

After having the car start the last couple times, I tried again today and it won't fire over. I "think" the electrical problems that were draining the battery are over. The starter and alternator have both recently been replaced.

 

It cranks, but has a whirring noise I just can't explain. I just changed out the distributor cap and rotor as well as the ignition coil. The wires and plugs are also less than a year old.

 

Maybe Dylan can chime in because he had it happen with my car a couple days ago when he was helping me get the alignment done.

 

any thoughts?

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Tim Comeau

Go to what you last worked on..................

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Packfill

Sorry if this is too simple....

 

1) You said it is turning over. The Motor or the Starter... (bendix spring)

 

2) Does it have spark at the plugs?

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944-Spec#94

To start you need fuel and spark.

 

So check to make sure you have both.

 

Make sure you have spark at the plugs.

 

Take out a plug touch the outside to the engine and have a friend crank. You should see the spark. If not they you have spark problem. If it sparks then look for fuel.

 

 

One way to check is tp pull the full rail and with injectors in it. Point the entire rail and injector assembly over the headers. Ensure the headers are cold first. I would also pull the coil wires for this test. When ready have a friend crank it over. You should see fuel spraying all over the headers. If not you have a fuel issue.

 

If it does not turn over then you have either a battery issue or a starter problem.

 

Now.

Try these and come back to us with which problem it is.

 

Oh.. if it turns over, has fuel and spark, but does not fire then it is a timing issue. (ie no fuel spark at the right time)

 

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PeanutinCA

Some symptoms it has....

 

It seems like it's flooding. It will fire up briefly then stall out. Then when you crank of seems flooded. The trick to getting it started seems to be to turn it over and over and over with you foot planted to the floor. Once you can get it to sputter through and running, then it's fine. I think the starter is a secondary issue? But it's very much like an old carb car when it floods.

 

P.Dilly.

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uberklasse

I am getting it flat-bedded to a shop right now.

 

I got it started last night and it does seem like it could be fuel. It was parked in my driveway with the rear on a downhill slope. We jacked up the back end and it started!!

 

Don't know if it was coincidence or not, but I thought that might be a fuel sending unit?

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Tim Comeau

Not sure if 944's have a fuel check valve like older 911's. This valve keeps fuel at the ready for starting because it doesn't let it drain back into the tank. If it fails, it takes a while to get fuel back up to the engine.

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944-Spec#94

no fuel check valve on a 944. It does take a few extra cranks to fire if there is no fuel in the fuel rail, but I doubt this is the problem.

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PeanutinCA

Fuel pump maybe? Fuel filter full of dirt? You have gone off a couple times!

 

P.Dilly.

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944-Spec#94

Hmm,

It could be a fuel pump/filter, but that would mean not getting enough fuel rather than flooding.

 

Are your spark plugs wet or dry after a few non-start cranks?

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uberklasse

SPARK plugs are dry and we are chasing the electrical gremlins. My thought (and the technician's ) is that it could be related to the DME.

 

I am hoping and praying I can get resolved in time to race this weekend. Otherwise, it's a couple all nighters getting my #2 car ready.

 

My other car needs, belts, fire system, pads for roll cage, battery cut-off and lots of body work and cosmetics just to be able to race. The suspension is bone stock, but at least I would be on the track!!

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mfoley

Good luck. Hope to see you there. I've got some last minute issues of my own but I think they'll be resolved in time.

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Steven Rea

good luck Jason...hey if you end up with an all stock suspension, that's cool, as I will be on one too. We'll hang out together on the track, swishing through the turns in our boats...then again, maybe you should bring an extra bit of your tow strapping, and a big hook. On the straights, just hook up and I'll pull you past those 911's so we can play together again in the turns.

 

 

 

s

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944-Spec#94
SPARK plugs are dry and we are chasing the electrical gremlins. My thought (and the technician's ) is that it could be related to the DME.

 

I am hoping and praying I can get resolved in time to race this weekend. Otherwise, it's a couple all nighters getting my #2 car ready.

 

My other car needs, belts, fire system, pads for roll cage, battery cut-off and lots of body work and cosmetics just to be able to race. The suspension is bone stock, but at least I would be on the track!!

 

Hmm you have two cars I see.

 

Well take the DME from the "other car" it will be 10 min swap. See if it works. The great thing about two cars is you can swap parts all over the place.

 

So swap DME -> Test

if not swap fuel rails with Damper and Regulator. -> Test

if not swap Fuel Pump - > Test

if not swap speed and reference sensors (BG and DG connectors behind engine -> Test

 

You should able to test all this crap out quickly. maybe in a couple hrs. The biggest pains are the fuel pump since it is a messy job and the speed and reference sensors since they are hard to reach.

 

You have two cars so you can start thowing parts at the problem until you trace it down. Then buy a replacement for that part. PS... that is on great thing about spare/parts cars.

 

DON'T GIVE UP!

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RJ-944

Several years ago my 88 would start and run for a second and die - turned out that it was flooding itself - Mechanic replace the following parts and problem went away.

 

Fuel Pressure regulator 944-110-198-03

Fuel Pump Check value 944-608-951-01

 

Something to ckeck.

 

RJB

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uberklasse

thanks for the advice everyone!

Joe, actually I have 3 944's right now, but my real enemy is time...I just can't do any of the work myself

 

Waiting to hear back more....it seems like it's something with the fuel system.

 

It's getting down to the wire!

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greg f

The first thing I do with a no start condition is replace the DME relay with a jumper wire. Connect two 3" wires together using a male spade terminal, install two more male spade connectors on the two individual ends. You should now have a test wire that has three male spades, all connected together. ( I keep this in the car, taped somewhere convenient)

Remove the DME relay, plug your test wire into the 30 terminal. ( look at the back of the relay, this is 12v) Now plug the other two ends into the fuel and spark supplies. ( 87 and 87b I think) You can now run the fuel pump and DME main power independent of the other electrical systems. If the car starts the relay was bad or the ignition power to the relay is bad. If it still won't start, clean the connections on the speed and ref sensors and try again. Test the sensors using the procedures found on ClarksGarage website with a multimeter. Hope this helps, Greg F

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DavidH

Jason,

How were you able to get your car started/running on Sunday?

 

I have an intermitant no start issue if the car has not been started for a few weeks. I have spark, I have tested fuel pressure, new DME, new flywheel sensor. It is an occational think and I haven't been able to replicate it when it is at a shop.

 

I had other issues this weekend, but it did start (just ran like crap).

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uberklasse

We removed the coolant temp sensor (it was new) and then put back on once we got going. I think it's the DME though since the timing sensors were checked with Steve Rea's (thanks again Steve)

 

Also thanks to Glen Uslan who helped a ton! I only got about 1/4 of the track time I paid for,but at least I got to run a little....

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DavidH

Jason,

I have an extra DME that you are welcome to use if you are still trying to sort out the startup issues.

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uberklasse

I didn't want to take any chances and fry your DME David. I had the day off today and pulled off my '84 (it's turning into a full donor car)

 

I am going to have the electrical done over completely. It will cost a bunch, but I don't want to miss anymore track time.

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