AI/World Challenge GTS Class

[robbodleimages]

World Challenge opened up a middle ground class for 2010 called GTS. With the end of Mustang Challenge it appears that those cars are jumping as a group to World Challenge GTS with allowed upgrades to cams and heads.

 

The HP rating after the upgrade puts that package smack in the middle of American Iron competition.

 

It would seem to me that at least current generation Mustangs and Camaros that meet AI performance perameters and World Challenge safety regulations would be legal to run in World Challenge from here out.

 

If I am correct, it would be a professional racing option for our cars.

[ianacole]

Yes, it would

[firehawkclone]

That's great news! Now I just need 100g's

[robbodleimages]

100g's?

[firehawkclone]

100g's?

 

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35913 plus spare parts, travel, ect, ect thanks for the info though I hope the best of luck to you!

[robbodleimages]

Here are some costs for World Challenge GTS

 

Register a car number: $100 for a race $300 for a season(includes all required uniform patches)

License: $70 for a race $140 for the season

SCCA Membership: $80

Mfc flag required: $175

Single race entry fee: $2600

Double race entry fee: $4400

 

275/35-18 Toyo's are $1200 a set shaved and delivered.

The races are 45 minutes.

 

The main difference between this and a NASA club weekend is the entry fee and a few bucks for professional appearance. The entry fee is large because these races pay and are on television.

So, the actual cost above a NASA weekend depends a lot on your race check and how well you do.

It also depends on whether you can sell a little sponsorship for the TV.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Guest

[ST#97]

Ok.....I am pointing out that those with current AI cars might well be allowed to race this series.

I would imagine that it would have to be the current platform Mustang and Camaro, but maybe more.

 

Sure, if you want to run the full series, the travel is expensive and if you want to be competitive, you are going to have to spend more money just like in AI. But, these are 45 minute sprint races. They run Toyo tires as spec tires. You dont need a pit crew and you already have great experience on the tire. Except for the professional race entry free, your costs are not much more than a club race. In September they race at VIR.

 

Personally, I would think our national level drivers would do well and would be fun to watch doing this.

 

But, if you would rather roll your eyes thats fine.

 

Bob, I would pay close attention to the required safety items, including required camera systems and electronics packages that most of us don't have. Fuel cells and all other items excluded...it will be very difficult to homologate a "top AI" car into that series. would be cool though.

[robbodleimages]

Bob, I would pay close attention to the required safety items, including required camera systems and electronics packages that most of us don't have. Fuel cells and all other items excluded...it will be very difficult to homologate a "top AI" car into that series. would be cool though.

 

I have been on the phone with them this morning. They do require a camera system. I already have it anyway. My car has a fuel cell and fire suppression. They dont have the same electronics requirements that Grand Am does.

 

Many to most of the S197 Mustangs that I've seen racing in AI are at these specs or very close.

 

Maybe I am pipe dreaming.

[pederb]

I wonder if this is good bad for AI?

[robbodleimages]

i think that if it were not the scca, it would be the natural ladder system that todd has been looking to create.

[ST#97]

 

Maybe I am pipe dreaming.

 

Probably a little. Further class dilution OUTSIDE of NASA is not the answer for AI. Mustang Challenge maybe? but not AI.

 

Keep dreaming though. You have found ways to go play in the deep end that I wish I had at my disposal! Maybe someday Todd will write up articles about ME making big in Grand Am!

[robbodleimages]

i'll admit that i am lucky. thru a series of trades i ended up with a grand am mustang. i could run grand am gs or world challenge gts if i wanted to.

 

if i had the money and the talent, i'd do it. i really dont have either, though and FR500C specs complicate AI for me.

 

so...its not as lucky as it might have looked. i do enjoy having the car though.

[pbr96]

I think you guys are missing the part that a Mustang Challenge car will be to slow for GTS in its current format. Look at the times Dean ran at Miller last year with a warmed over 3V and at the 9.5 power to weight on Toyo's, basically mid 2.08's. Then look at the times from 2 years ago in the old WC TC which is the new GTS class with times of 2.06 flat.

 

The Challenge cars will need more HP, weight reduction, aero improvements and a better suspension to come close and I think it will still come up short. I guess time will tell, who's going to be the first one to try it?

[robbodleimages]

the challenge cars are getting engine mods, heads, cams, intakes to increase their hp.

[pbr96]

And it is still not enough and only one part of the equation. That only gets it within striking distance of the horsepower of a stock C5 Vette in GTS, but in T1 trim they also have headers, intake and a tune which doesn't take into account the suspension, tire size, aero and weight. The FR500S will need more help than bolting on a heads and a cam, actually the FR500C is a much shorter leap.

 

I've been working with SCCA on this for several months, long before the Challenge series was canceled and we figure it will take 14-18K to upgrade the cars depending on the route taken and how many sets of wheels. I don't see any way around it, but in comparison it's probably the cheapest way to get into a professional series that has a TV package for sponsors.

 

Did I just use cheap in a sentance describing racing...that can't be right, maybe "cost effective" is a better term.

[robbodleimages]

well..its not for me anyway. i am not going to be driving in any professional series. i was just pointing out a potential opportunity.

 

if i were smart, i would sell the fr500c. wait. you can't sell anything right now anyway.

[pbr96]

I agree that there is some real potential for the cars, but I think they need a little more help than anyone is expecting. I've been looking at it hard for a few months now with the secondary thought of running the car in AI, maybe even in time for the Nationals.

 

PB.

[robbodleimages]

I agree that there is some real potential for the cars, but I think they need a little more help than anyone is expecting. I've been looking at it hard for a few months now with the secondary thought of running the car in AI, maybe even in time for the Nationals.

 

PB.

 

do you have an "S" car already?

[pbr96]

Maybe a couple of them, waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

[pederb]

Maybe a couple of them, waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

Paul is always full of surprises

[Pat L.]

John Heinricy drove away from the realtime boys at Mosport this year. So a T1 car can be more than "competitive"

 

The realtime cars that PD and Nick are running right now were developed in '09 for the dumbed down version of touring car that the class was supposed to morph into. So cars from '08 (that we're basing GTS times on) should be a tick faster since they get to lose the ballast in GTS. Only one realtime TSX is running in GTS that was prepared to those crazy old touring car rules, but it's a rental car for whoever gets the itch to run. Unfortunately only Brandon Davis has been talented enough to run the car to its potential during the first race of the year and he started at the back with no practice or qualy time.

 

The point I'm making is that yes, I'm sure a mustang challenge car would be competitive. Are you going to show up and beat PD's touring car out of the box? Doubtful. The R888 is a disaster of a race tire and it'd take a bit of time for even a savvy AI competitor to get it to work. SCCA Pro works with teams and pours over a lot of data to level the playing field.

 

And on a bad note: the world challenge cars tend to pick up roughly a second on each respective track year to year. So you might consider knocking a couple seconds off the miller lap times just to be safe. World Challenge goes back to Miller this year. Wouldn't that be an awesome place to debut some mustangs?!?!

[Red Tornado]

Personally if they can figure this all out and I can run in both AI and a rare world challenge race in a new 2011 5.0 I may just be heading down that path.

Just always wanted to run a few true street courses.

 

Oh and if I read correctly there watkins glen times for the winner were only 1-1.5 seconds quicker than Rusty and I last year at our first time at that track so like most top racing it all depends on the which car at which track.

[tacovini]

It's not a coincidence that the World Challenge GTS class rules "just happen" to line up with our AI package.

This new development in the road racing world is most DEFINITELY a good thing for American Iron!!!

...and the majority of folks who posted here have validated that in one way or another.

 

For those who have the means to pay a premium for national TV coverage and follow a national season schedule...run your eligible AI car!

For most of us who have a smaller budget and can only realistically run regional races...run your eligible AI car!

For those regional grassroots racers who want to dip their foot into the pro-racing pool when WC comes to town but then return to regional racing....run your eligible AI car!

For those MC/WC drivers who are looking to downsize their operation in this economy but still want to race regionally...run your eligible AI car (in any NASA region in the country!!!)

 

The greatest thing we can bring to American Iron is to have multiple entry level steps into/out of the class.

Every step above or below American Iron, needs to be a relatively small one. (We don't want big barriers to enter AI.)

The same holds true for the "steps" on either side of American Iron...whether it is Grand Am or World Challenge or others.

 

Remember...when those other series cars become obsolete or the other series becomes obsolete...it's a small step into...AMERICAN IRON!

How many former Grand Am, A-Sedan, Bondurant and now Mustang Challenge cars currently run in American Iron?

Whatever the number is today....there will be more tomorrow!!!

 

-=- Todd Covini

National Series Director

American Iron Racing

 

PS- As a racer...I've already put my feelers out there for an S197...whether it's a former Mustang Challenge or a Miller Cup car.

Those LSX Camaros are coming over the horizon and they are coming into AI strong.

We need to build up the Mustang reinforcements!!! LOL

[pederb]

Does WC GTS have any age limits on the car? I remember when the Fox body was kicked out because of its age.

 

Cheers

[pederb]

Personally if they can figure this all out and I can run in both AI and a rare world challenge race in a new 2011 5.0 I may just be heading down that path.

Just always wanted to run a few true street courses.

 

Oh and if I read correctly there watkins glen times for the winner were only 1-1.5 seconds quicker than Rusty and I last year at our first time at that track so like most top racing it all depends on the which car at which track.

 

To run a 2011 5.0 Mustang in AI demands some serious rule changes.

 

Cheers