AI/World Challenge GTS Class

[robbodleimages]

mustang challenge races are 45 minutes. no question they are going to have to learn the difference in the tires, but its something they will all have to do.

[stevepoe]

Has anybody seen a World Challenge VTS form for an S197? Where are they regarding rules for the Mustangs or is it just an idea?

 

Matt, nothing solid as of yet. from what I have been told they are meeting with ford this weekend to talk about what ford can offer to 500s owners that will allow the car to be better prepared to battle in gts.

 

I heard the name wilson being dropped as part of the ford crew that they are meeting with at Mid-Ohio

 

I guess they are talking about more power and ways to take some weight out of them to run in gts.

 

I hope these guys no the difference between racing on a 888 vs a r1 . these heavy things are going to give it up in a hurry when they start pushing them thinking they are on a r1

 

wc is what a 50 min race ? what is a typical challenge race length ?

 

 

what to the challenge car's put down in terms of power??

 

Lets put a conservative number out there that the GTS points leader puts down 290whp and come in at 2750lbs.

 

try around 300rwhp and 3500lbs +

Edited August 5, 2010 by Guest

[stevepoe]

mustang challenge races are 45 minutes. no question they are going to have to learn the difference in the tires, but its something they will all have to do.

 

not for long . Talk is they are on a full slick in 2011 so that may help them a ton. Don't know who it is yet though

[robbodleimages]

mustang challenge races are 45 minutes. no question they are going to have to learn the difference in the tires, but its something they will all have to do.

 

not for long . Talk is they are on a full slick in 2011 so that may help them a ton. Don't know who it is yet though

 

Goodyear has a new DOT tire just on the market. Something in the same catagory as the hoosier r6 and the bfg r1. Probably a little better than both since its new. I would guess its them.

[King Matt]

Has anybody seen a World Challenge VTS form for an S197? Where are they regarding rules for the Mustangs or is it just an idea?

 

 

not on the site yet http://www.world-challenge.com/competitors/vts.php

 

 

But its more then an idea; http://www.world-challenge.com/event/entrylist.php?base=100&event=10mo

 

Interesting. So if there are six cars racing this weekend, what are the prep rules? Are they racing as-is under the MC rules with an R888?

[slammed_93_hatch]

 

what to the challenge car's put down in terms of power??

 

Lets put a conservative number out there that the GTS points leader puts down 290whp and come in at 2750lbs.

 

try around 300rwhp and 3500lbs +

 

horrysht... how are they going to try to compete with the GTS leaders??

[robbodleimages]

 

what to the challenge car's put down in terms of power??

 

Lets put a conservative number out there that the GTS points leader puts down 290whp and come in at 2750lbs.

 

try around 300rwhp and 3500lbs +

 

horrysht... how are they going to try to compete with the GTS leaders??

 

well...i think the idea is to upgrade the S car's engine with the hotrod package of heads, cams and intake that should bring the car up to 350whp. The C car races Grand Am at 3250lbs. The S car should be able to reach those numbers.

[stevepoe]

 

what to the challenge car's put down in terms of power??

 

Lets put a conservative number out there that the GTS points leader puts down 290whp and come in at 2750lbs.

 

try around 300rwhp and 3500lbs +

 

horrysht... how are they going to try to compete with the GTS leaders??

 

They can't not to mention no time being on a 888 that is a complete different setup

 

what they need to do is just make a mc class and be done with it.

[stevepoe]

They are going to take a already pissed owner of a challenge car and piss them off even more when they get smacked around this weekend.

 

then tell them 10k more in a engine upgrade to run in gts. I'm guessing some carbon fiber as well to help get the weight down. That is about the only place I can see weight coming out of those pigs.

 

course they could get rid of the heavy ass gt500 wheel and spend another 5k on forgelines.

 

Even then with a 50min race. those 500s cars are going to soak up some tires and brakes. even if they can run up front at those weight numbers cars like that tsx and lotus will come alive at the end of the race.

[ST#97]

Steve...thanks for posting everything I was going to say since the first post! you are now the debil!!!!

[slammed_93_hatch]

They can always slap restrictor's, and weight back onto the TSX/lotus

 

Last year they were 2900lbs with a forty something % restrictor.

 

And that would be my guess as to what they are going to do.

 

Reading in between the lines of the press release, which i know doesn't mean much when WC changes there mind as much as a teenage girl, it seems that the mustang is the new "target" for the class.

 

Maybe Peter has given up on having GTS be his class, and is moving to something new next year?

[robbodleimages]

They can always slap restrictor's, and weight back onto the TSX/lotus

 

Last year they were 2900lbs with a forty something % restrictor.

 

And that would be my guess as to what they are going to do.

 

Reading in between the lines of the press release, which i know doesn't mean much when WC changes there mind as much as a teenage girl, it seems that the mustang is the new "target" for the class.

 

Maybe Peter has given up on having GTS be his class, and is moving to something new next year?

 

WC is looking to build the GTS class. They have had 3 or 4 cars per race enter these races with only the Acuras showing up for the entire season. The Mustang Challenge group brings a class foundation of 10+ cars. They are not going to run 10 cars off because they can't compete with two cars. They are going to engineer the class for the largest car count.

 

The only thing that keeps me from doing it is the $2600 entry fee.

[slammed_93_hatch]

They can always slap restrictor's, and weight back onto the TSX/lotus

 

Last year they were 2900lbs with a forty something % restrictor.

 

And that would be my guess as to what they are going to do.

 

Reading in between the lines of the press release, which i know doesn't mean much when WC changes there mind as much as a teenage girl, it seems that the mustang is the new "target" for the class.

 

Maybe Peter has given up on having GTS be his class, and is moving to something new next year?

 

WC is looking to build the GTS class. They have had 3 or 4 cars per race enter these races with only the Acuras showing up for the entire season. The Mustang Challenge group brings a class foundation of 10+ cars. They are not going to run 10 cars off because they can't compete with two cars. They are going to engineer the class for the largest car count.

 

The only thing that keeps me from doing it is the $2600 entry fee.

 

yep.... which is pretty much what i just said...

 

Until the NextBestThing comes along...

[robbodleimages]

part of the basic problem with mustang challenge was that you had to have a factory sold FR500S to compete. If you destroyed your S, you could build a replacement, but then only the replacement was valid to participate.

 

That seriously drove up the cost of starting in the series. At present a car could be built to S specs for half the cost of buying a new one and far less than buying a used one.

 

I think there is at least a chance that allowing team built cars to S specs could create a strong race class that can last.

[pbr96]

From my experience in dealing with SCCA for over 20 years and talking to them the last couple of weeks, they are not looking to slow down the rest of the cars to meet the FR500S specs and in fact they lifted the weight and removed the restrictors on the Acura to speed them up. The target is T1 or Grand-Am GS specs and speed.

 

If you’re converting a FR500S, I would plan to budget between 10-20K for the upgrades required in the engine, aero, weight reductions, wheels, etc. They will have specs and specific parts you can use, it will not be open like AI as to what engine, heads, suspension or whatever all the way down to the wing. You won't need to do these items to compete, but don't expect them to give a lot of sympathy when you are off the pace.

 

Pro Racing is not cheap and it never will be, however I think you'll be hard pressed to find a series that you can get into with TV and prize money with a lower cost of entry. Not that it's the best value; just take it for what it is.

 

BTW, I think you can rent an Acura for $18-24K a weekend and the last I check a GT car ranged from 25-45K depending on how good a car and team you wanted.

[slammed_93_hatch]

It is WCvision now, not SCCA pro.

[sundialracing]

The rumormill around the SCCA paddock is saying hold off on doing anything for GTS because it's all going to change next year....

 

I thought the non GA spec 302R was built for GTS?? Ford says it is SCCA legal and that's the only place I figure it fits.

 

Miller is down to 55k for a brand new S, what a deal!!

[Red Tornado]

Ok let's be very simple about this..

 

AI = $30k or so car to run

GTS = $55k or so to run

Grand Am = $130k or so to run..

 

It's all a ladder guys and costs to up step the ladder plain and simple.

 

What I know:

Yes appears new tire and full race slick (so GTS should drop right in to ST2 if you go check out the rules).

They will assess the mustang challenge cars this weekend and thinking is a AI top car needs to gain 2-3 seconds to be competitive.

So take a challenge car and drop 250lbs or so and get it to 375rwhp is the plan.

 

2011 New Mustang 5.0 will be GTS legal.

 

They are offering a free entry to 1st and 2nd place in any class at nationals for a WC race!!!! WOW hello deal...

 

Will you need a new car to play and not a fox body...yes..

 

My Gameplan:

GTS whatever rules they make go with it...

AI- probably change tires and rims and do a different computer chip and ballast to get to 9.5 ratio and I am ready to run.

ST2 - probably gas the car up and run it..

 

They have 12 entries already for Mid-Ohio FYI...

 

Personally my heart is with NASA and American Iron but I like running other racetracks and especially road courses occasionally and it just gives us that option if you want to spend the money and do it. The key is if.... and if you don't want then don't do it. And I can totally see that and why most folks won't

Honestly NASA and AI have been amazing so I assume 95% of guys won't touch GTS. But for 5% of us we may do a few races just to play somewhere else on a random wknd.

 

Don't bash it to hard guys it's the first time I have ever seen different sanctioning bodies work together so easily and that is good for all of us in the long run..

[slammed_93_hatch]

The rumormill around the SCCA paddock is saying hold off on doing anything for GTS because it's all going to change next year....

!

 

 

lol NOOOOO way????

 

WC change things up every year?? NO WAY!!!

[slammed_93_hatch]

results are in..

 

http://www.world-challenge.com/event/results.php?ID=1206&event=100

 

Touring Car is a much better fit for them, lap time wise then GTS.

[robbodleimages]

if those mustangs had AI horsepower numbers, they would be just fine.

[sundialracing]

results are in..

 

http://www.world-challenge.com/event/results.php?ID=1206&event=100

 

Touring Car is a much better fit for them, lap time wise then GTS.

 

Are the 500S cars on Toyo's?

[robbodleimages]

i think so.

[stevepoe]

3.5 seconds , yup that was a waist of what $3,600 plus a set of toyo tires so $4800 or so ..woops they get $300 for showing up at least.

 

that is a season of racing in nasa entry fees .

[robbodleimages]

$2600 for a single race event. This is generally what mustang challenge entries cost. The tire costs are the same as well. For those guys is no different.

 

Yea, its more expensive than a NASA/AI weekend. I dont think the conversation has ever been about dumping AI for WC.