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Do you balance your race tires?


Cobra4B

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I marked some sticker A6's last Dec at RA. in 3 TT laps, they rotated 20 degrees

 

500rwhp will do that.

 

Spoken by the man with the 500 pound C5....

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drivinhardz06

Spoken by the man with the 500 pound C5....

 

nah he sampled my car last night. he knows it ain't no 500. it's at least 650

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Spoken by the man with the 500 pound C5....

 

nah he sampled my car last night. he knows it ain't no 500. it's at least 650

 

 

Surprised he is not putting in a new clutch overnight. Did the Evo start?

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I Balance and always have. Recently I suddenly developed a horrible vibration at speed AND under braking at VIR. I changed an axle, and a rotor at the track. But when I swapped the tires front to back the vibration followed.

 

I balanced the tire and the problem was solved.

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to follow up, no balance, absolutely no vibrations approx 150 mph top speed.

 

Tim

 

That's because tires tremble at your name.

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heavychevy

I didn't balance my tires after reading that some other guys don't. Taking tires to the shop is a pain. I had a crazy vibration that I couldn't stand. Next time out, I just balanced the front, good enough for me. I can do without the rears. Of course with hoosier its a waste of money unless you can keep the tires from spinning on the rim. I heard the hairspray trick or no lube works well.

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philstireservice

If they move on the wheel, don't bother balancing them, it will make them worse.

 

If they don't move on the wheel, balance them.

 

 

Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

The reason you balance tires is because of the light and heavy spot in the tire and wheel...you are basically trying to match the two together, make them rotate as one, the balancing does this.

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philstireservice
I didn't balance my tires after reading that some other guys don't. Taking tires to the shop is a pain. I had a crazy vibration that I couldn't stand. Next time out, I just balanced the front, good enough for me. I can do without the rears. Of course with hoosier its a waste of money unless you can keep the tires from spinning on the rim. I heard the hairspray trick or no lube works well.

 

 

You need some lube to mount the tire properly, a lot of shops over do it. Some wheels have a band of grooves in the bead area to help keep the tire from moving on the wheel.

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heavychevy
I didn't balance my tires after reading that some other guys don't. Taking tires to the shop is a pain. I had a crazy vibration that I couldn't stand. Next time out, I just balanced the front, good enough for me. I can do without the rears. Of course with hoosier its a waste of money unless you can keep the tires from spinning on the rim. I heard the hairspray trick or no lube works well.

 

 

You need some lube to mount the tire properly, a lot of shops over do it. Some wheels have a band of grooves in the bead area to help keep the tire from moving on the wheel.

Some people mount them dry, I've never done it or seen it but it has been done.

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Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Why would you not take one variable out of the equation? The wheel has harmonics. The tire has harmonics. By balancing the wheel, are you not at least then only dealing with any vibration that may occur from the tire being out of balance?

 

 

-Kevin

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Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Why would you not take one variable out of the equation? The wheel has harmonics. The tire has harmonics. By balancing the wheel, are you not at least then only dealing with any vibration that may occur from the tire being out of balance?

 

 

-Kevin

 

Because the variables change. Say you mount the tire in one position and ballance it at 30/32 psi. Well you probably aren't going to start out with 30 psi, and if you look at some of the pictures the fast guys barely have the tire contacting the rim.

 

Mark the tire at the valve stem, most of the time your mark will not line up with the valve stem after a session. So now you've changed the balance.

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philstireservice
Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Why would you not take one variable out of the equation? The wheel has harmonics. The tire has harmonics. By balancing the wheel, are you not at least then only dealing with any vibration that may occur from the tire being out of balance?

 

 

-Kevin

 

 

Once you add the tire to the equation you have changed the balance of the wheel because of the addition of another item and you have combined them to make one unit. Tires, as are wheels, are not perfectly round and they are not equally weighted around the circumference of either. A tire and wheel need to be balanced as a unit, not separately, unless used as separate items. Mounting them together changes the "package" not the separate parts of the package.

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Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Why would you not take one variable out of the equation? The wheel has harmonics. The tire has harmonics. By balancing the wheel, are you not at least then only dealing with any vibration that may occur from the tire being out of balance?

 

 

-Kevin

 

Because the variables change. Say you mount the tire in one position and ballance it at 30/32 psi. Well you probably aren't going to start out with 30 psi, and if you look at some of the pictures the fast guys barely have the tire contacting the rim.

 

Mark the tire at the valve stem, most of the time your mark will not line up with the valve stem after a session. So now you've changed the balance.

 

 

I understand that. The pictures posted above are mine and I consistently get 1/4 to 1/2 a wheel rotation. Depending on the track.

 

 

-Kevin

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Don't bother balancing just the wheel and then mounting the tire, that is a waste of time and money.

 

Why would you not take one variable out of the equation? The wheel has harmonics. The tire has harmonics. By balancing the wheel, are you not at least then only dealing with any vibration that may occur from the tire being out of balance?

 

 

-Kevin

 

 

Once you add the tire to the equation you have changed the balance of the wheel because of the addition of another item and you have combined them to make one unit. Tires, as are wheels, are not perfectly round and they are not equally weighted around the circumference of either. A tire and wheel need to be balanced as a unit, not separately, unless used as separate items. Mounting them together changes the "package" not the separate parts of the package.

 

 

While you definitely have more experience with tires than I, what you are saying still does not make sense to me as a complete answer to the questions we are posing.

 

There are two variables in the tire balancing equation, right? The wheel can be out of balance and the tire can be out of balance. Obviously, if you put a tire on a wheel and balance it, then you have a balanced pair.

 

However, if the tire is going to move on the wheel, why not just balance the wheel? Take out half of the equation. That will ensure that any vibration you are getting will be just from the tire. Which in theory should be less than if you didn't balance anything at all.

 

 

-Kevin

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philstireservice

-Kevin

 

 

Once you add the tire to the equation you have changed the balance of the wheel because of the addition of another item and you have combined them to make one unit. Tires, as are wheels, are not perfectly round and they are not equally weighted around the circumference of either. A tire and wheel need to be balanced as a unit, not separately, unless used as separate items. Mounting them together changes the "package" not the separate parts of the package.

 

 

While you definitely have more experience with tires than I, what you are saying still does not make sense to me as a complete answer to the questions we are posing.

 

There are two variables in the tire balancing equation, right? The wheel can be out of balance and the tire can be out of balance. Obviously, if you put a tire on a wheel and balance it, then you have a balanced pair.

 

However, if the tire is going to move on the wheel, why not just balance the wheel? Take out half of the equation. That will ensure that any vibration you are getting will be just from the tire. Which in theory should be less than if you didn't balance anything at all.

 

 

-Kevin

 

Because every time the tire moves it will change the balance and because the only way the wheel and tire combination will be in balance is if both are in balance at the same time, as a single unit. Balancing just the wheel, in this case, would be a waste of time because every time the tire moved the combination would be out of balance.

 

I understand what you are proposing but it just would not help the situation. You need a tire on the wheel to be able to make the unit function. You would never see the advantage of just balancing a wheel when tire is constantly moving on the wheel.

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Phil,

 

Fair enough. I appreciate the insight.

 

Let me ask another question: Have you seen where there are certain causes to the tire moving on the rim? Specifically, I have seen information where people have cleaned and scuffed the inside of the bead on the wheel and this significantly reduced the amount of tire rotation on the wheel. In your experience, is this true?

 

 

 

-Kevin

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philstireservice
Phil,

 

Fair enough. I appreciate the insight.

 

Let me ask another question: Have you seen where there are certain causes to the tire moving on the rim? Specifically, I have seen information where people have cleaned and scuffed the inside of the bead on the wheel and this significantly reduced the amount of tire rotation on the wheel. In your experience, is this true?

 

 

 

-Kevin

 

 

I think I said this above somewhere, there are wheels that come from the factory with a rib section in the bead area of the wheel. This is designed to help keep the tire from rotating on the wheel. Be very careful about modifying the bead area on a wheel yourself. Wheels are designed a certain way in the bead area to prevent the tire from rolling off the wheel when there is a substantial amount of air loss. Modifying this area could also cause premature air loss and actually make the the tire roll off the rim under some high loaded turns. I'm not saying a modification can't be done safely, but you have to make sure to take into consideration all the possible downsides.

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So the question is, would a typical tire be more or less out of balance than the wheel?

 

Kevin - I think if the answer is less that you would theoretically get less vibration if you at least balance the wheel. But it sounds like Phil is saying that is not the case, which to me means they can be equally out of balance or the tire is actually more our of balance. Quite frankly, what is the difference, your boys mount and balance for free, just get them rebalanced after every weekend

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Since mount and balance is one of my sponsorships, and I have had balance issues with race tires, it is something I do to eliminate one issue at the track. I recommend it even if it is not free.

 

Now I need to get the Kodiak wheels to quit breaking bolts.

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I marked my tires at Sebring this past weekend after reading this thread.... No movement, but I guess I don't have the WHP that some of these Z06's have....

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I marked my tires at Sebring this past weekend after reading this thread.... No movement, but I guess I don't have the WHP that some of these Z06's have....

 

Uh, BS ......

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I balanced about a million tires/wheels for Phil at the 08 Nats.

 

There were VERY few that would come in and not want them balanced. So few that we had to leave notes "do not balance".

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I hate when my wheels/tires are even just a little bit unbalanced... the little vibrations always cause me concern, and I have suffered through them before, but once all 4 are freshly balanced everything is always sooo smooooth.

My plan is now to get a fresh balancing before each weekend.

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