asifnyc Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 another update. the fuel cell is in... here are some pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 hey Scott, sounds good. we need more AMC race cars! where are you located? are you going to build just a track toy or are you going to actually race it? if so where? post some pics! I'm in Northern Virginia, but I'm military, so I move around a lot. Not sure where I'll be next summer. Car is a Canary Yellow 71 Javelin SST and green guts (yuck!). Was loaded from the factory with 401, auto (BW), A/C, PS, PB, gauges, console, luggage rack, etc. California car with only 33k original miles. Completely rust free. Intent is to build something street-legal, but with minimal concessions for comfort (racing seats, manual everything, custom dash, etc). Think Trans Am for the street. Likely will start out with factory front and rear suspension. Right now it's sitting in the garage with the drivetrain out. 401 is machined and ready to go back together - nothing fancy, just your normal bolt ons (cam, intake, headers) on a 10:1 motor. 401 will be backed by close ratio T-10. Unsure if I'm going to run the Model 20 rear for now or just swap out for a 9" and get it over with. Plan is to build something to race, but might be a 2 stage build. Stage 1 is as described above; Stage 2 would be similar to what you are doing. Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 hey scott, sounds great. keep us posted and post some pics if you have them... "trans-am for the street". works for me that's what my yellow javelin is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Here's a picture of it prior to disassembly. Just a clean street car. That stance is killing me, however. These cars just don't look right to me unless they are sitting level and low. Adding a rear spoiler will help the look, too. Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 21, 2010 Author Share Posted October 21, 2010 awesome! keep us posted on your progress. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 went to Evil Genius today to work with the guys on pedal and steering column placement. here's a couple of pics and a link to a video walkaround of the car from today. quick question on the cage. checked the rules and didn't see a clear reference one way or the other... can you weld the cage to the interior of the car (beside the mounting plates)? ie, can you weld the cage to the A pillar and connect the main hoop to the interior sheet metal with a tab? more pics and a write up at: http://asifnyc.com/?p=720 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 quick question on the cage. checked the rules and didn't see a clear reference one way or the other... can you weld the cage to the interior of the car (beside the mounting plates)? ie, can you weld the cage to the A pillar and connect the main hoop to the interior sheet metal with a tab? It is not allowed per the CCR's description of basic cage construction. However, the AI rules provide an exception that allows you to attach the cage to the unibody anywhere you want (A-pillars, B-pillars, etc.), but it may not be legal for other classes that do not provide this exception, if you decide to change classes in the future (for example, to a class whose roll cage rules are limited to what the CCR say). So, as long as you stay in AI/AIX, you will be fine. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 hey Mark, thanks a lot for pointing out about thinking of other classes. I'm not sure what other class I might conceivably run in beyond PT/ST... looking at those rules I think I CAN attach to the chasis but will be assessed 2 points? from the PT rules PDF ROLL CAGES: 6 or 8-point (two main hoop, two rear brace, two front hoop, and either two front firewall or foot well optional mounting points) roll cage designs constructed per the NASA CCR may be utilized without a PT modification point assessment. Additional bars and/or attachment points within the driver’s compartment that exceed the allowances in the CCR are also permitted. The following roll cage designs are permitted but will be assessed points as follows: 20 1) One or more bars that penetrate the front bulkhead/firewall +2 2) One or more bars that are welded to the chassis (directly or with a plate) anywhere farther than 6” from the end of one of the above 6 or 8 listed tubes where it terminates at a plate +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 ROLL CAGES:2) One or more bars that are welded to the chassis (directly or with a plate) anywhere farther than 6” from the end of one of the above 6 or 8 listed tubes where it terminates at a plate +2 You are correct; welding the cage bar(s) to the chassis further than 6" from the 8 permitted plates (6 for the cage, 2 for the footwell bars) will cost +2 points in TTA-TTF or PTA-PTF. Note that it says welding. Play in the gray area as you see fit, but at your own risk. However, if your adjusted weight to power ratio is in excess of 8.7:1 or you have a ton of modification points which cause you run in TTS/U/R or STR2/STR1/SU, then you no longer count modification points; your classing is only based on an adjusted weight to power ratio and you can do pretty much anything you want with the cage without penalty. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 thanks Mark. can anybody point me to some good build threads or photobucket slide shows of AI or CMC cars? I've searched the forum but didn't really come up with much. I'd like to get some reference for what other people have done in terms of general build decisions (ie, battery location / cut off switch location, accusump location, fire system setup, etc)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Some of the best information you will find is on Corner-Carvers.com. The roll cage design thread is long, but informative: http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27556 Be sure to use their search function to find information about fire systems, fuel cells, etc. before posting any questions, or else you will suffer their typical wrath. As for a battery cut-off location, put it where you can easily reach it AND where a corner worker can easily reach it. For example, in the center of the car is easy for you to reach but impossible for a corner worker to reach if the car is on fire and you're out cold. Somewhere on the A-pillar bar near the side window sill is usually fine, but make sure that it doesn't interfere with the window net (and that a corner worker can access it with the window net in place). Or, use 2 switches mounted in series; maybe 1 on each A-pillar bar so that a corner worker can turn off the car no matter from which side they approach the car (or if the car is up against a wall). Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 thanks Mark. I know about corner carvers and will look more closely for good stuff on there. I also have previously read about the dangers of posting over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtomas801 Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Looks good Asif, keep up the good work. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share Posted November 29, 2010 hey, anybody running small/light batteries? I'm thinking of running a Deka EXT18L (18lbs, about $85 bucks shipped). Was told Deka's are equivalent to Braille's but cheaper. anybody have any pros/cons on these? what kind of battery is everyone running? thanks. here's a link to a PDF on the batteries: http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0278(6.10).pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 What are you going to do about a dash? Stock pad & frame with all aftermarket gauges or a complete custom dash? Trying to figure out which way to go with mine. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted December 1, 2010 Author Share Posted December 1, 2010 just got the car back today... FINALLY! spent some time looking at it. I was going to cut the stock dash pad to fit around the cage but the dash pad is in really bad shape. I'm not sure what to do. I might wind up fab'ing a metal dash pad with a simple vertical panel for the gauges. I'm thinking of running something like a racepak IQ3 http://www.racepak.com/Components/IQ3_Display.php. but they're expensive so I haven't decided. If I don't do a digital dash/data logger then I'll just do some standard gauges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 some detail shots of the 3-link... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 Looking good! Brining mine to a local shop soon to get the cage installed. A few follow up questions for you - What seats did you end up going with? Thought I saw a Kirkey in one of your pics - 47 series? About to order some; Kirkey said they will work for me, even though I'm 6'4" and 230#. Did you have subframe connectors welded in? Roughly how much do you think this car will weigh when done? Mild steel on the cage, right? What size? What color is your street Javelin? Sorry for the 20 questions... Thanks! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 hey Scott, here are some answers... seat - yes Kirkey intermediate road racing seat (series 47). seat + cover about $400. I'm 6'5" but only 165#. race shop that built the cage had a car with one of these seats and I was able to try it out and see that I fit well. a couple of pages back in this thread is a brief discussion of ultra-shield seats. you can get a custom seat made (they have a form to fill out). you can look into that option if you're not sure you'll fit right in the kirkey. subframes - was originally planning to do them but cage builder says they aren't needed... race weight I'm guesstimating will be about 3200# (with driver, fluids, etc) cage is 1.75, .120 wall yellow javelin color.... Ford Utility Yellow had it painted in the early 90s. went to the paint place and looked through their chip books. that's the yellow I found (in about 5 minutes of looking). I'm from NY originally and the car was painted there. all my friends joked that the car looked like a taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 1. What is the upper link chassis mount bracket attached to? Just the floorpan, or is it tied into something more structural? 2. What thickness of metal was used to make the upper link axle mount bracket? They look a little thin (from here, anyway). Do not underestimate the amount of force that these brackets will see. My brother's Thunder Roadster managed to break off the upper link axle mount bracket, and that is a relatively gutless 1500 lb car. It wouldn't hurt to have the chassis mount bracket tie into the cage structure. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 hey Scott, here are some answers... seat - yes Kirkey intermediate road racing seat (series 47). seat + cover about $400. I'm 6'5" but only 165#. race shop that built the cage had a car with one of these seats and I was able to try it out and see that I fit well. a couple of pages back in this thread is a brief discussion of ultra-shield seats. you can get a custom seat made (they have a form to fill out). you can look into that option if you're not sure you'll fit right in the kirkey. subframes - was originally planning to do them but cage builder says they aren't needed... race weight I'm guesstimating will be about 3200# (with driver, fluids, etc) cage is 1.75, .120 wall yellow javelin color.... Ford Utility Yellow had it painted in the early 90s. went to the paint place and looked through their chip books. that's the yellow I found (in about 5 minutes of looking). I'm from NY originally and the car was painted there. all my friends joked that the car looked like a taxi. I ordered the Kirkeys from Summit today. $888 with covers and shipping for the pair. Interesting on the subframe connectors. Maybe with the substantial cage you don't really need them. Will see what the shop says when I bring it in. That makes sense on the color; it looks darker than my 71 (Canary Yellow). Yours looks pretty close to the Woods/Revson 71 but haven't been able to figure out yet what color it was painted. Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulletpruf Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 just got the car back today... FINALLY! spent some time looking at it. I was going to cut the stock dash pad to fit around the cage but the dash pad is in really bad shape. I'm not sure what to do. I might wind up fab'ing a metal dash pad with a simple vertical panel for the gauges. I'm thinking of running something like a racepak IQ3 http://www.racepak.com/Components/IQ3_Display.php. but they're expensive so I haven't decided. If I don't do a digital dash/data logger then I'll just do some standard gauges... Ok, still trying to figure out what to do on mine. Have to figure out if I'm keeping heater/defrost. If not, leaning towards 100% fabbed dash. If I keep it, then I'll probably use the stock pad and frame and fab up an insert with aftermarket analog gauges. Let me know if you are in need of a dash pad and/or dash frame. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asifnyc Posted December 4, 2010 Author Share Posted December 4, 2010 scott, thanks for the possible dash offer. I'll see how things go this weekend... RULES QUESTION... below is an excerpt from the CCR. I read this to mean I can run fuel through a steel braided line from the fuel cell, through the driver's compartment and into the engine bay. can anyone confirm that this is allowed. I'm also thinking of running a manual fuel cut-off valve within reach when I'm strapped in. anyone else run one? thanks! 15.14 Hoses Inside Cockpit All hoses carrying any liquids or any gases that go through the cockpit must be metal or steel braided. Any hoses that carry cold water, such as washer fluid, cool suit, etc. are exempt from this rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunter Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 RULES QUESTION... below is an excerpt from the CCR. I read this to mean I can run fuel through a steel braided line from the fuel cell, through the driver's compartment and into the engine bay. can anyone confirm that this is allowed. That's how its run on my car, and it's always passed tech... AN10 lines I'm also thinking of running a manual fuel cut-off valve within reach when I'm strapped in. anyone else run one? thanks! I don't have one, not sure why you'd need one. Just another fitting to leak?? My fuel line runs down the passenger side rocker (inside the cage though), not close enough to reach a valve. My accusump line runs along the tranny tunnel with a manual valve though... Also AN10. When running any lines inside the cockpit be aware of what might happen in a wreck... you don't want the car body collapsing and pinching a line between the body and the cage structure, pinching it off or rupturing the line. I had to move my battery cables and fire sup. lines after someone pointed this out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 I run a SS hard line down the tunnel inside. I have a fuel pump switch, but the master switch still kills everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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